I meant How the Beatles Destroyed Rock 'n' Roll. (And his thesis is less simplistic than the title suggests.)
― Tomorrow Begat Tomorrow (Sund4r), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 12:46 (seven years ago) link
Right, should be getting Escaping The Delta; Robert Johnson and the invention of the blues. hadn't realised that the last bit of the thread had been about his other book on the Beatles.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 12:47 (seven years ago) link
That Elms quote is a great example of the *other* school of rockist thought i.e. music should come from the gut/soul, none of this pretentious art-school nonsense for me thanks! I don't think that's Marcotte's stance though, despite the bits about danceability.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, May 31, 2017 12:44 PM (fifty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this may not be Marcotte's stance, but I think it's similar to stuff that comes up in some of the more vulgar/clumsy iterations of poptimism, the idea that young women just enjoy pop music in some pure, unmediated, physical way, instead of overthinking everything like nerdy male music critics
― soref, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 12:48 (seven years ago) link
I know a few women who were Beatles fans "until they got weird." But I think it was more about them promoting drugs.
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 12:50 (seven years ago) link
It was the facial hair duh
― leprechaundriac (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:06 (seven years ago) link
this is a good review...
http://www.richardgoldsteinonline.com/the-original-sgt-pepper-negative-review.html
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:14 (seven years ago) link
"And the pendulum started its long-term swings: progressive rock and corporate rock would be swatted back by punk and disco, hair metal would be blasted by grunge and hip-hop."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/30/arts/music/beatles-sgt-peppers-lonely-hearts-club-band-anniversary.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:18 (seven years ago) link
I love how 70s music is still this weird rhetorical battleground. Back in the 80s I often heard that punk was a reaction against disco. I guess prog was kind of forgotten at that point.
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:22 (seven years ago) link
hair metal obviously a reaction against disco.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:23 (seven years ago) link
grunge a reaction against hair metal. experimental horse music a reaction against grunge.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:24 (seven years ago) link
xpost reaction against baldness iirc
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:24 (seven years ago) link
Pub Rock a reaction against Restaurant Rock which was a reaction against Cafe Jazz
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:25 (seven years ago) link
this, by the way, was the beginning of the straight white male reaction against disco...
http://sleazethiscity.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/VH7-e1425291398633.jpeg
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:27 (seven years ago) link
"only i can save the children from disco..."
https://alfredogarcia70.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/david-lee-roth-assless-chaps.jpg
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:30 (seven years ago) link
listening to sgt pepper's now and my first reaction is that my copy skips.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:32 (seven years ago) link
also a little help from my friends is a surprisingly beautiful song
― soref, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 12:48 (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah that's true. I definitely think those characterisations are the weakest part of the piece.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:32 (seven years ago) link
Gregorian chants were a reaction to grindcore iirc xps gah
― leprechaundriac (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:33 (seven years ago) link
Women were into Grindcore first, before it got all pretentious
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:36 (seven years ago) link
this is a really good album
― Treeship, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:37 (seven years ago) link
dang you guys still talking about the beatles in here huh
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:38 (seven years ago) link
I remember watching a BBC documentary about '70s brit heavy metal where a couple of interviewees (I'm 99% sure one was Tony Iommi) mentioned in passing an antagonism towards soul music (or at least the soul club scene of the time), the point wasn't really picked up on but it wasn't something I'd ever seen or heard mentioned before.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:39 (seven years ago) link
It was Geezer Butler.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:40 (seven years ago) link
Did surprise me because nearly all of those 70s bands started of playing Motown/ soul/ R&B covers (hence the redundancy of a certain other thread).
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:41 (seven years ago) link
Maybe they just got bored of that though and wanted to get HEAVY.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:42 (seven years ago) link
can't believe there's a redundant thread on ILM
― Covfefe growing vpon the skull of a man (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:45 (seven years ago) link
I was thinking last night that it wouldn't exactly be too difficult to lob a solid intersectional feminist critique against a band of bigamists, deadbeat dads and wife beaters but Marcotte took the brave path of "this is why boys like Tool, ew"
― Jay Elettronica Viva (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:45 (seven years ago) link
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:40 (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Ah thanks! Yeah I wonder where that break with r&b/soul came for that generation of rock bands.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 13:59 (seven years ago) link
whiney, the beatles weren't a band of john lennons
― Treeship, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:06 (seven years ago) link
that would've been really difficult given the level of knowledge of genetic engineering in 1960s Liverpool
― Covfefe growing vpon the skull of a man (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:07 (seven years ago) link
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Clone Band
― leprechaundriac (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:11 (seven years ago) link
or would "Clonely" be better?
― leprechaundriac (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:12 (seven years ago) link
clonely is better
― mark s, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:13 (seven years ago) link
When I'm 64 clearly about cloning overkill
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:13 (seven years ago) link
tbf original Paul was the philanderer
― mh, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:22 (seven years ago) link
Yes, but the guy they replaced Paul with after he died has proven to remarkably faithful to his spouses.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:24 (seven years ago) link
I Married Paul
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 14:28 (seven years ago) link
at the end of the day, any band that can inspire something like this is inherently evil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ahx9ckqIw
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 16:10 (seven years ago) link
that whole movie is a cringefest
― leprechaundriac (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 16:15 (seven years ago) link
Tim Burton's Pepperland! would be the logical next step.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 16:25 (seven years ago) link
at least the dumb bee gees one had earth, wind, & fire.
and aerosmith
― maura, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 16:38 (seven years ago) link
yeah that was the only other high point.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 17:15 (seven years ago) link
that movie is one long low point
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 17:17 (seven years ago) link
― scott seward, Wednesday, May 31, 2017 4:25 PM (two hours ago)
this will totally happen in my lifetime, won't it
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 19:25 (seven years ago) link
I remember watching a BBC documentary about '70s brit heavy metal where a couple of interviewees (I'm 99% sure one was Tony Iommi) mentioned in passing an antagonism towards soul music (or at least the soul club scene of the time), the point wasn't really picked up on but it wasn't something I'd ever seen or heard mentioned before
This feels more like Mids v. Rockers to me...? I've always suspected that punk & disco were two sides of the same Mod coin
― the rockists' red glare (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 19:27 (seven years ago) link
*Mods v. Rockers lol
No, was definitely Geezer Butler. Was a story about how he met Ozzy, that he'd been at the blues club and Ozzy had been at the soul club and they glared at each other across the street on the way home. And through the miracle of YouTube...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egCAUuBN0vI
― Mud... Jam... Failure... (aldo), Friday, 2 June 2017 09:34 (seven years ago) link
That's actually a different clip though! I was sure the original poster was referring to an interview in the Heavy Metal Britannia documentary and, through the miracle of YouTube, I found it. Geezer Butler, talking about the early days of Sabbath, says, at one point, "Everywhere you went it was soul clubs... I was just absolutely sick of going to places and listening to soul music..."
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Friday, 2 June 2017 10:00 (seven years ago) link
haven't seen the clip and so can't necessarily back this up as the source of the hostility, but there was a distinct split in 60s sensiblity between listener-clubbers who liked to go to clubs to dance to records (ideally by black american groups or singers) and listener-clubbers who liked to go to clubs to watch bands (which were on the whole white and local)
up to a certain point* there was a line of strong mod disdain for the very *idea* of live music as opposed to music on record (the who called themselves mods but most real mods disowned them) so this may be less a "northern soul sucks" line per se than a "live music rocks dude" line (which is after all what you'd expect a working musician to feel)
― mark s, Friday, 2 June 2017 10:09 (seven years ago) link