What Is Rockism ?

Can we at least agree that pop is currently the default and therefore dominant paradigm?

What do the music critics in Kansas write about?

the monoculture is dead

ever since the british invasion "rock music" has been more or less overtly defined as music by and for white men.

I mean, way before the British Invasion, the 'pop' charts were overtly distinct from the 'race' (later R&B) and 'hillbilly' (later country and Western) charts. I just looked up a bunch of random Billboard year-end charts from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and they're all topped by white people.

xp

killed by insecticides

oh come on, try setting foot in a kansas middle or high school (actually, please don't, but) and then talk about there not being a lot of pop music

it's like framing any response to anything this way instantly injects a fvckton of unprocessable garbage into yr brain, whether yr k-punk or lord custos

kind of amazed nobody here has brought up Miley's MOR pivot

Mark S also OTM. So Yowie is like a mersh Jute Gyte? I should look into that.

"simultaneously long and under-developed on every point" is pretty much the Quietus's editorial philosophy, it seems to me.

Also, personal anecdote: One of their editors reached out to see if I wanted to review the last Metallica album, but only if I could promise them a negative review. I couldn't, and he got someone who could.

https://skingraftrecords.bandcamp.com/album/synchromysticism

So there already. This is good stuff.

but only if I could promise them a negative review. I couldn't, and he got someone who could.

this is how everyone assigns reviews

(obviously it's more often "only if I could promise them a *positive* review" but)

Can we at least agree that pop is currently the default and therefore dominant paradigm?

― pomenitul, Thursday, May 11, 2017 11:38 AM (five minutes ago)

this is not true. the industry often operates as if pop is the dominant paradigm even when it isn't, to its own detriment.

the monoculture is dead

― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Thursday, May 11, 2017 11:39 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is true.

this is how everyone assigns reviews

Not in my experience. I've been doing this since 1996 and that was literally the first time that ever happened to me.

anyway i am off to watch the eurovision semis bcz i am the hegemony (all of it)

The death of monoculture doesn't preclude the idea of a dominant paradigm.

in my experience there is almost always an understanding, spoken or not, that your verdict will not differ substantially from the verdict the editor wants to commission. it's why most major publications do not assign reviews unheard

(or if they do it is generally because they have a longstanding enough relationship with the writer that they can make a guess at what the verdict will be.)

the other day i was walking by this house they are building on the next block, anyway the carpenters were working on finish the roof of the garage, and in general in Minnesota you expect KQRS (our longtime classic rock station) to be the soundtrack to any blue collar worksite but these guys were probably late 20s and playing generic EDM type stuff, and was kind of a neat the times they are a changin' moment

even in a strictly market/commercial sense pop is not the dominant paradigm in 2017 and it will cede even more space to other genres of music in the near future

from the early 90s onward the top 40 brand of supposedly 'mass-market' pop has frequently been commercially subservient to other segments of the industry (usually for a few years at a time)

y'd u quote ilx in the comment section

― i n f i n i t y (∞), Thursday, 11 May 2017 16:57 (two hours ago)

Was hoping for an influx of dunderheads but I realise now I needn't have bothered.

xp & while i would like to be sympathetic to the argument that those parts of the industry (like dance, hip-hop, r&b) are also pop, critics tend not to treat them as such -- and the rockism/poptimism debate is inherently about criticism.

xxxp

the new economy

they probs majored in ancient concrete poetry in post-cleopatra modern day egypt

even in a strictly market/commercial sense pop is not the dominant paradigm in 2017 and it will cede even more space to other genres of music in the near future

from the early 90s onward the top 40 brand of supposedly 'mass-market' pop has frequently been commercially subservient to other segments of the industry (usually for a few years at a time)

― dyl, Thursday, May 11, 2017 3:11 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Help me understand this then: http://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2016/top-billboard-200-albums

ha tim

and the rockism/poptimism debate is inherently about criticism.

i agree w/this you probably have to know who robert christgau is to be really invested in the debate

well glad we had our bi-annual shitting on pop critics

siding with UMS on this one for the most part. and with that ilx post quoted in that comment. (didn't actually read the article but i'm assuming it made some decent points clumsily)

(didn't actually read the article but i'm assuming it made some decent points clumsily)

It did not.

The thing is, the argument this article, and about a million virtually identically tepid takes beforehand, make is actually dated now. Something changed/broke with the Sheeranocalypse a couple of months ago and mass clowning on the biggest pop star in the country is positively encouraged now.

never let a little nuance get in the way of confirming your biases

xp

I mean it's not as if Ed Sheeran and Drake were not respectively a) clowned on from day one b) at least, like, one to two years into a backlash

i would have put my house on my pnj ballot if it had 20 spots. few songs last year gave me as much of a sugar rush. also i like mike posner :(

it's never Twenty-One Pilots, DJ Khaled, the Chainsmokers, and Posner who get grief from pieces like this – it's Swift and Beyonce.

it goes back to the celebrity thing -- these people's real problem is with celebrity journalism, not with poptimism, but they don't see or make a distinction.

i think that's probably true

21 Pilots grew on me.

and goodness what about those Kendrick essay commissioned in 2015 (not many this year). Is The Quietus offended by those?

it's absolutely true. and the choice of targets is even more striking given the way women don't really exist in the hot 100's upper echelons right now. like, what are you arguing against here?

"you" = writers of these pieces

Help me understand this then: http://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2016/top-billboard-200-albums

― pomenitul, Thursday, May 11, 2017 12:15 PM (two minutes ago)

what's most interesting about this list is that a lot of these albums are successful despite LACK OF support from the segments of the industry that prop up 'pop'/top 40 music. looking at the top 10 on the list:

- 3 generated zero major hits in the top 40 sphere (hamilton, chris stapleton, lemonade)
- 3 were from artists whose songs were crossing over to, not breaking at, pop radio (drake, rihanna, 21 pilots). drake and rihanna also managed to get major hits that charted well despite being largely ignored by top 40 radio ("needed me", "controlla"). it's interesting and somewhat telling imo that rihanna, who has been a straight-ahead top 40 artist for the vast majority of her career, opted for the urban-crossover route this time around.
- 1 album was by an artist delivering pop hits and crossover r&b hits in roughly equal measure (the weeknd)
- 3 are straightforward top 40 albums (bieber, one direction, adele -- who's actually an adult contemporary artist, but sure)

3 non-crossover pop albums out of the top 10 and 3 albums with no pop radio hits at all does not exactly speak to the hegemony of pop. and the scales are going to tip even further away from pop as the dominant commercial force in the coming years, to be displaced by more edm and 'urban' (i hate that euphemism) music. just watch!

well, streaming... complicates that

it does. tbh i would be excitedly cheering along the incoming shifts if they weren't also damaging to women artists.

it's never Twenty-One Pilots, DJ Khaled, the Chainsmokers, and Posner who get grief from pieces like this – it's Swift and Beyonce.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, May 11, 2017 2:44 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

BTW: I literally googles "Chainsmokers bad" and there seems to actually be quite a few articles about them sucking including one that comes up w/the dreaded Nickelback comparison

https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsmokers+bad&rlz=1C1NHXL_enUS736US736&oq=chainsmokers+bad&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2145j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

what's most interesting about this list is that a lot of these albums are successful despite LACK OF support from the segments of the industry that prop up 'pop'/top 40 music. looking at the top 10 on the list:

- 3 generated zero major hits in the top 40 sphere (hamilton, chris stapleton, lemonade)
- 3 were from artists whose songs were crossing over to, not breaking at, pop radio (drake, rihanna, 21 pilots). drake and rihanna also managed to get major hits that charted well despite being largely ignored by top 40 radio ("needed me", "controlla"). it's interesting and somewhat telling imo that rihanna, who has been a straight-ahead top 40 artist for the vast majority of her career, opted for the urban-crossover route this time around.
- 1 album was by an artist delivering pop hits and crossover r&b hits in roughly equal measure (the weeknd)
- 3 are straightforward top 40 albums (bieber, one direction, adele -- who's actually an adult contemporary artist, but sure)

3 non-crossover pop albums out of the top 10 and 3 albums with no pop radio hits at all does not exactly speak to the hegemony of pop. and the scales are going to tip even further away from pop as the dominant commercial force in the coming years, to be displaced by more edm and 'urban' (i hate that euphemism) music. just watch!

― dyl, Thursday, May 11, 2017 3:50 PM (twenty seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That makes sense to some extent but I think my definition of 'pop' encompasses more subgenres than yours. To be fair, I also tend to think of rock as pop, so in and of itself the rockist/popist divide strikes me as moot to begin with.

Ultimately I'm more interested in the antagonism between 'pop(ular) vs. less popular' music.

their music is awful, the singer is a cute douche, and commercially they're a much bigger deal than Beyonce.

i take your word for it they suck! i'm just saying the press does seem to target them too

ok, i see what you mean then. again i think critics tend to treat those subgenres differently but i might be wrong b/c i don't really pay that much attention to the critical sphere.