matisyahu

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Nate -- one difference here w/ the others you mentioned is that this guy does all his songs that way, as opposed to Clapton or Robert Palmer. The Jamaican patois is the essence of his vocal style not just something he throws in every once in a while for effect. And yeah, after reading a bit about minstrelsy (including the Christgau piece Philip mentioned) I don't see use of the term quite as damning as I once did. I didn't feel like Rosen was making much of a judgment about it -- he didn't say it was offensive unless I missed it. Personally, I like gimmicky characters like this in the pop landscape every once in a while.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 00:47 (twenty years ago)

I don't really see Matisyahu as being gimmicky. Now, dressing up in an Elvis suit and doing reggae versions of Led Zeppelin songs (as Dred Zeppelin did) is gimmicky. A Hasidic guy who happens to play reggae music is not in itself a gimmicky act.

Perhaps a marketing person might crassly speak of being Hasidic as Matisyahu's "gimmick", but I'm willing to accept that he is probably quite sincere in his faith (and in his love for reggae) and that neither aspect of his image is a gimmick.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 01:32 (twenty years ago)

I don't doubt his sincerity at all, I think the gimmick I'm speaking of has more to do with the way he is marketed and covered in the media (only some of which he has control over). I believe he really digs this music and enjoys making it but, you know, since he spent most of his life outside this faith, he has to have some idea of how it appears to people, and that it's a bit of a novelty.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 01:48 (twenty years ago)

"fwiw i don't think he's faking his identity as a hasid"

Does that really matter?

in the context of "jewface"? yeah, kinda, don't you think?

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:22 (twenty years ago)

honestly i'm drunk right now so i am not going to try and articulate this very well, plus perhaps i am being overly defensive bcz he is a friend of a friend, but uh... i dunno. like i said i'm drunk

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:23 (twenty years ago)

gawd, who cares about the "fake patois". it's part of the genre...and, just as a point of information, snow actually gets respect in dancehall circles, as does the extremely white and german gentleman--a guy who is bilingual in jamaican and deutch. the problem i find with matisyahu is that the music just isn't good enough for me--i want to hear him produced by a dave kelly or a donovan germain, not bill laswell. bill laswell is a dub fanatic; this is hardly the type of music i want to hear under some admittedly decent chatting. i don't think that i can properly judge matisyahu unless i hear him over a proper riddim. let's hear him on the drop leaf, fuck!

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:32 (twenty years ago)

oh, and s1ocki, i'm drunk too. damn those cinq a septs!

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:33 (twenty years ago)

haha! where?

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:34 (twenty years ago)

But but but Cybele, I thought the only real music was dub and all that dancehall stuff was soulless sell-out music. A white rock critic told me so!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:34 (twenty years ago)

(I wish to visit Montreal and get drunk with Slocki and Cybele, they being good and noble souls.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:34 (twenty years ago)

ah, the tapas at taza flores is always excellent as is the beer.

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:35 (twenty years ago)

no shit,.... my gf used to work there!! i was with our collective "boss"

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:35 (twenty years ago)

al south himself, eh?

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:36 (twenty years ago)

yeah yeah... now i'm considering a trip to "videoself"... anyway i feel bad that this topic is now off-topic

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:37 (twenty years ago)

oh, and btw, i really think my piece this week is taking the t.o. / mtl divide a little too far...
wait, am i supposed to be talking about hasidic reggae? whoops...

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:37 (twenty years ago)

Yay drunken Canadian fun!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:38 (twenty years ago)

just to bring it all back to what we're supposed to be talking about (before i go and watch house...the best show evah!), i had a number of really interesting conversations with rastas in jamaica about the fact that i live in a hasidic neighbourhood...they specifically asked me about hasidism and wanted me to describe what hasidic people wear, what i know about them, etc. they felt that there was real connection between themselves as rastafari and the hasidim.

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:39 (twenty years ago)

honestly i totally understand the ilm skepticism (and the slate skepticism), i guess i'm either just being the devils' adv. or i'm just reacting to kneejerkism

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:40 (twenty years ago)

(that was an xpost, but yeah what i liked about that article was the parallels j rosen was drawing b/w the two)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:41 (twenty years ago)

Well, out of curiosity, what about that first post in the revive? From the ex-manager?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:41 (twenty years ago)

i agree...more reggae = more fun.

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:41 (twenty years ago)

(and i find that people bring up the phish-fandom and conversion thing as if it somehow debunks his hasidic faith, or somehow makes him easier to dismiss, which i think is kinda bs)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:42 (twenty years ago)

and re: the first post... i mean musician acting shitty towards mgmt shockah! i don't think it really means much one way or another. from where i or anybody else on this thread stand that is.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:43 (twenty years ago)

Fair nuff.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:43 (twenty years ago)

hell..look at a million jamaican dudes singing all about di ooman dem and pump up all pum pum and then switching it up to be all rasta...are we pissed off at that?

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:43 (twenty years ago)

i mean it obv sucks for jdub, who i'm to understand are cool people, and it sucks for people who put a certain moral faith in him, which i don't really think you should be doing with a musician anyway.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:44 (twenty years ago)

like if we found out vybz kartel dumped his manager you think ilm would really care?

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:45 (twenty years ago)

s1ocki otm

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:47 (twenty years ago)

but it seems we're preaching to each other's choir (to drop a churchical ref)

cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:47 (twenty years ago)

dudes got no flow and his lyrics suck

chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:49 (twenty years ago)

Chaki brings the pain!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:49 (twenty years ago)

(And brings the thread full circle. ;-))

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:49 (twenty years ago)

hahaha i was expecting someone to drop in with something like that, we were asking for it

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:50 (twenty years ago)

(esp since i was thinking "i guess someone's gonna say something like what it says at the top of the htread, 'dude's got no flow and his lyrics suck'")

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:50 (twenty years ago)

but its true. his rhymes are elementary and his voice is undeniably weak.

chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:51 (twenty years ago)

i find that people bring up the phish-fandom and conversion thing as if it somehow debunks his hasidic faith, or somehow makes him easier to dismiss

I don't think anyone's saying it debunks his faith. but musically speaking it totally makes him easy to dismiss--dude, Phish suck!

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:21 (twenty years ago)

ain't no time to hate Matos

gritty sanskrit (sanskrit), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:23 (twenty years ago)

but seriously, i don't know what sux more, Phish fandom, or bad reggae.

gritty sanskrit (sanskrit), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:25 (twenty years ago)

the two seem not entirely unrelated

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:31 (twenty years ago)

i agree phish suck! but i'm sure lots of musicians i like were once into, or are still into, music i don't like! i don't really care!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 04:01 (twenty years ago)

someone gave me 2 of his albums tonight. i no want to listen now -phish. also the titles bother me.

Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 05:55 (twenty years ago)

I'm still kind of confused as to what I think about this guy in terms of his social standing. Musically I came to the conclusion that he sucked balls after 2 seconds of listening to what sounded like a casio keyboard "jungle" setting with some guy making fun of beat boxing over it.

Other aspects leave me dangling. Is it okay to appropriate another culture? Is their a right way and wrong way to do this; and if so what are they? Is there a way a white guy could play a Jamaican/Carribean based music without him being accused of stealing another culture's art in a shameless ploy to make more money off of it than an actual Jamaican or Carribean artist working today ever could?

If most music is based off of appropriation (Elvis playing what was considered a black idiom; countless examples of cross cultural influence and misinterpretation spawning all sorts of genres) is this just part of the way music is made?

After reading the New York Times article on this guy by Kelefa Sanneh I go into a discussion about this with a friend. As much as I disliked his music, I still wanted to defend his right to make it. Who are we to say who can and cannot make which sort of music they want to? Of course, my friend refuted by saying that the idea of the rights of "The Artist" which must always be guarded is a very old Bourgie perspective, that basically ignores that there are other artists right now, making music in the exact same style he is, doing it better, and will not make nearly as much money as he is, basically because they're black.

I guess I'm back to where I started then. If the dude loves dub raggae seriously, in what way could he do it? Should he sing about shopping at the Vegan co-op and how annoying it is combing that beard he has and other assorted "real," White Plains-y issues he goes through? She he keep preaching the same middle of the road spiritual bullshit but drop the accent? Which way would be... uhmm... right?

Maybe he would just have to do it, and not suck.

Harmonica winds, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 06:36 (twenty years ago)

On the flipside, should an artist's absolute conviction in his or her or their art absolve/release him/her/them from criticism? I shudder if that's our critical bar.

I don't think anyone is saying Matishayu shouldn't do what he does, I think it's more 3 things:
1) That he does what he dose
2) That a label with Mr. Laswell's help decided to put it out
3) That the press decided to hype and talk about him
4) That the throngs of us consumers decided to buy it

It's hard to believe that steps 2 and 3 were realised without any sense that this is a novelty.

Also, I remember how much Finley Quaye was ridiculed, so I don't think this criticism of Matis is based on some anti-religious affilitation slur.

I mean, if Yo Yo Ma came out with a regga album, it would either be a 1) non-story because it's so stupid or 2) massively ridiculed, right?

Minimaxi, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 13:32 (twenty years ago)

And 3 should be 4. And peace should be unto our Earf.

Minimaxi, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 13:32 (twenty years ago)

I'm a big fan of appropriating alien cultural tools and tropes in order to further my own insane fundamentalist religious agenda but come on, this guy is terrible.

adam (adam), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:18 (twenty years ago)

so, uh, where does Sinead O'Connor's reggae album fit into all this?

Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:30 (twenty years ago)

What is her singing like on that record? I haven't heard it. I guess Willie Nelson, too.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:32 (twenty years ago)

Yo-Yo Ma would only put out an amazing reggae album, or none at all.

There is always a space for experimentation, especially with new faiths and their trappings - here, rasta and reggae, Dylan's Christian period, etc.

The problem is when people drop their critical bars because they don't want to be seen as treading on what is a fundamental right here, at least in the US, - freedom of religion. But a whole lot of sanctified expression can't cover crappy singing, bad beats, and lame production.

I, for one, have not heard this guy. I'd be willing to, if for no other reason than I am always willing to listen to some new music. But if its weak, its weak.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:55 (twenty years ago)

The question, though, is, even if it's weak, is it reasonable to point to his "conversion" in a stylistic sense as a source of criticism, and/or to mention his conversion at all as above posts and many articles do? It's the age-old question of content versus context.

Are we saying, Matishayu sucks because he's a shallow imitation of true reggae, which is only reinforced by the fact that he converted to reggae from being a Phishead?

Minimaxi, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:21 (twenty years ago)

Unfortunately, I think a lot of young musicians (myself included) at one point listened to Phish. To a large extent, this fandom opened up the opportunity to be exposed to other music otherwise never heard prior. I don't think that this is necessarily a damning life resume entry.

But it CAN connote a sort of musical tourism that can take away from claims of spiritual depth to one's music - here, reggae from a Hasidic Jew. Especially with recently post-college kids whose ability to access HUGE varieties of music, I think you find a degree of musical ADD - no real study (repeated listenings, actually learning how to play, determining what went into the song) of the music they listen to. Hence, at least in my mind, the popularity of craptastic dorm rockers like Jack Johnson and John Mayer. There's very little substance to their playing, but often a whole lot of notes.

I regularly play in a montly blooze jam - I recognize what it is, but its still fun to go and rip some old Howlin' Wolf tunes with a competent rhythm section. The jam gets bad, however, when dudes get up and play nothing but SRV and The Fabulous Thunderbirds. It devolves into Bluesaoke. Is Matisyahu Reggaeaoke?

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:31 (twenty years ago)


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