Straight in at 101-125 // Emo Poll Near Misses
― ArchCarrier, Sunday, 12 March 2017 14:03 (seven years ago) link
Regarding the emo/non-emo distinction: maybe this is too obvious to be right, but I've always thought that one of the main things that distinguishes emo from adjacent punk-derived styles was its focus, especially lyrically but also musically, on vulnerable emotions like sadness and desperation.That would explain why a band with a sterling emo pedigree like Fugazi (half of Rites of Spring and the lead singer of Embrace!) isn't really emo (lots of oblique, outward-looking songs about politics and stuff), while a band with virtually no subcultural connection to emo like Weezer can place an album in the top ten of this poll.
That would explain why a band with a sterling emo pedigree like Fugazi (half of Rites of Spring and the lead singer of Embrace!) isn't really emo (lots of oblique, outward-looking songs about politics and stuff), while a band with virtually no subcultural connection to emo like Weezer can place an album in the top ten of this poll.
So, without judgment, I've been trying to work out/articulate something about how I think the understanding of the term/concept "emo" has evolved and why there’s so much disagreement on what it means, even if we just look at it in terms of thematic/lyrical content. My sense is that post-00, people are using it to mean something like “earnest, unreflexive expression of the raw emotions of sadness or romantic heartbreak”? And I think this might be fundamentally different from what it meant in the context of ≈85-96 post-hardcore. Even with uncontroversially canonical emo artists like Rites of Spring or Moss Icon, I can’t really imagine them writing lyrics like these (quoted upthread as quintessentially emo lyrics):
And I haven't been taking my medsSo lock all the cabinets, and send me to bedCause I know you're still worried I'm gonna get scared againAnd make my insides clean with your kitchen bleachBut I've kissed enough bathroom sinks to make up for the lovers that never loved me
My sense is that “emo” just meant they were dealing with personal introspection as opposed to singing about smashing the state but i) the emotions in question were not limited to, or even necessarily focused on, romantic heartbreak and ii) the way these emotions were addressed was either with introspective, even obsessive, reflection and self-doubt or with somewhat oblique and abstract poetic lyrics (cf Moss Icon), both of which are different from raw heart-on-sleeve purging. I think this is true even of the sappiest stuff like Rites of Spring’s “For Want Of” or Still Life’s “Outside Looking In”, let alone something like Moss Icon’s “Guatemala”. I think that people weren’t trying to write “Straight Edge” but they also weren’t trying to write “Pictures of You”.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 March 2017 14:58 (seven years ago) link
Sort of a half-baked off-the-cuff hypothesis. A lot of you guys clearly know this stuff better than I do.
You so want to teach this subject to your students, don't you?
― Odysseus, Sunday, 12 March 2017 14:59 (seven years ago) link
Oh, I'd be doing a better job of this if I were going to teach it.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 March 2017 15:00 (seven years ago) link
And hope is just another ropeTo hang myself with
― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Sunday, 12 March 2017 15:02 (seven years ago) link
the emotions in question were not limited to, or even necessarily focused on, romantic heartbreak
this isn't even true of '00s emo
― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Sunday, 12 March 2017 15:04 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, no, you're probably right: I don't even think MCR/FOB/PATD really fit that.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 March 2017 15:11 (seven years ago) link
So, then, why doesn't Fugazi qualify? I don't think "Promises" or "Runaway Return" or "By You" are worlds away from a lot of the stuff you're talking about.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 March 2017 15:16 (seven years ago) link
good question! i mean, i sorta think they do, they're the ultimate post-hardcore band
― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Sunday, 12 March 2017 15:19 (seven years ago) link
and it's not like post-hardcore ever totally unties itself from emo (except maybe with jehu)
idk it's fuzzy. it's a fuzzily-built genre
― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Sunday, 12 March 2017 15:20 (seven years ago) link
Hopefully I'm linking this correctly. Prior to this feature, the "Why Did Ever We Meet" video was the only thing I knew about emo. Plus, I had just discovered Napster. So this article/list was my initial understanding of what defined emo. And yes, the definition changed a lot over the next few years.
https://books.google.com/books?id=yjh_OmCmm-0C&lpg=PP1&dq=spin%201999&pg=PA148#v=onepage&q&f=true
― billstevejim, Sunday, 12 March 2017 18:00 (seven years ago) link
So this article/list was my initial understanding of what defined emo
This basically summarizes mine: http://www.fourfa.com/styles/index.htm
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 March 2017 18:11 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I remember reading this too about a year later.
― billstevejim, Sunday, 12 March 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
thanks for running the poll, i have a lot of listening to do!
glad Relationship of Command finished so highly (it would've been my #1 if i had voted). this album was probably the most important album in my musical development, representing a fork in the road where my more or less straightforward emo/screamo taste took a left turn to the experimental realm. while the beeps and boops on the album sound kinda quaint now, they were very radical and eye opening to my ears which hadn't really considered those sounds in the realm of possibility for music. omar's chord choices and phrasings were a revelation, and i still haven't heard anyone who sounds quite like him. cedric was an incredible front man with an incredible stage presence and whose lyrics introduced me to abstract and impressionistic styles.
as silly as it might sound, they also got me to start questioning traditional gender roles as they had manifest themselves in the punk/emo/screamo scene at the time. i recall him being mocked at the time for it, but cedric calling out slam dancers and refusing to play until the crowd danced respectfully really made an impact on me. also, learning that they wore women's jeans because they fit better caused me and some of my friends to also get a pair, predating the skinny jeans wave by a couple of years.
i was supposed to see them live for the first time at the end of april of 2001 but they broke up at the beginning of that month. i followed the mars volta intensely throughout their demo period and picked up the tremulant ep the day it came out (also the same day the first sparta ep came out). deloused in the comatorium was another very important album in my life, this time for intensely personal reasons not dissimilar to the theme of that album. i kept up with the mars volta over the years, but they never really hit the heights of RoC or DITC and my tastes drifted elsewhere. and now i'm done with my emo rant
― just another (diamonddave85), Sunday, 12 March 2017 19:21 (seven years ago) link
Many thanks to the poll runners, personally most grateful for the discovery of the Anniversary and Appleseed Cast, I threw them two votes at the end of my ballot, which is otherwise the stuff on the noms list that I have a history with:
Johnny Foreigner - Waited Up 'til It was LightDeath Cab for Cutie - We Have the Facts and We're Voting YesFall Out Boy - Take This to Your GraveHotelier - Home, Like Noplace There IsJohnny Foreigner - Johnny Foreigner vs. EverythingDismemberment Plan - Emergency & IFall Out Boy - From Under the Cork Treeblink-182 - Enema of the StateBrand New - The Devil and God are Raging Inside MeMotion City Soundtrack - Commit This to MemoryDeath Cab for Cutie - Something About AirplanesThe Promise Ring - Nothing Feels GoodAmerican Football - American FootballParamore - ParamoreBrand New - Deja EntenduSunny Day Real Estate - How It Feels to Be Something OnFugazi - RepeaterSunny Day Real Estate - DiaryThe Anniversary - Designing a Nervous BreakdownThe Appleseed Cast - Mare VitalisJawbox - For Your Own Special Sweetheart
― Mercer Finn, Sunday, 12 March 2017 21:02 (seven years ago) link
just as an observation, the mall emo vs real emo vs whatever reminds me of glam vs metal and seems ultimately kinda boil down to some kind of underlying fear of dudes who wear too much makeup or have too many female fans idk
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 13 March 2017 01:02 (seven years ago) link
Was gonna bump the Los Camp! thread for this, but there's no search, and it seems relevant here because they explicitly (and proudly) label it emo
https://noisey.vice.com/en_ca/article/los-campesinos-rank-their-first-five-records
― Evan R, Monday, 13 March 2017 01:49 (seven years ago) link
My computer died and I couldn't figure out how to log in on my phone until now. My ballot went out with the PC, but The Moon Is Down was my #1 and I'm a little surprised it didn't place at all. Also, Sund4r, I voted for Okara in the low 20s, I'm sure you're not surprised.
Also, in re: the goth side of emo. Anyone else like Antioch Arrow? I thought they were supposed to be kinda gothy/flashy.
― Guy Pidgeotto (Tom Violence), Monday, 13 March 2017 05:36 (seven years ago) link
Hold on, is there gonna be a tracks poll?
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Monday, 13 March 2017 06:55 (seven years ago) link
Great poll! like everyone else, lots of great discoveries/rediscoveries. Low Level Owl has become my favourite find I think. I voted Devil & God #1, glad to see it so high.
Like that site you posted Sund4r, i always viewed emo like > hardcore comes around, some bands take ~emotion~ (sadness, rage, etc) to the max > Others come along and write poppier versions of it (which some is classified as Indie & some as Pop just depending on the usual rules of the pop/indie dichotomy) > then we end up with Emo-Any Genre from bands that interpolate some shit from the classic post-hardcore emotive base. So I think a big part of it is self (or fan) definition. Anyone can write a song about emotion, but to be emo you have to write ~emotional songs~, so Fugazi just kinda decided to not be Emo, the fans went for it and that was that.
That seems like a cop-out explanation now that it re-read it, oh well \_(")_/
Also, really liked Hotelier, don't know much about 4th wave stuff, but if its more like them i need to check it out
― Will (kruezer2), Monday, 13 March 2017 20:52 (seven years ago) link
Didn't CMJ or someone try to retcon Springsteen's Nebraska as emo? That's why it's such a nebulous and contentious genre, once people started using it as a descriptor it could rightly be applied to nearly anything.
(I know, describing music, the horror)
― Guy Pidgeotto (Tom Violence), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 01:48 (seven years ago) link
bumping this thread to share that my high school girlfriend who is now a mother of four just posted a photo of her and Jim Adkins on facebook today
/emo
― gr8080, Thursday, 16 March 2017 14:22 (seven years ago) link
the 2nd Juno cd arrived yesterday. Just waiting on the first one to come
― Odysseus, Thursday, 16 March 2017 14:27 (seven years ago) link
After a couple more listens, The Rising Tide has really clicked with me, the run from Rain Song to The Ocean is great. Tearing Out My Heart is amazing. SDRE ranking as of today: How It Feels > Rising Tide > Diary > LP2
― Gavin, Leeds, Thursday, 16 March 2017 18:43 (seven years ago) link
holy shit why did I write off LC! before hearing Romance Is Boring?
― an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Thursday, 16 March 2017 18:48 (seven years ago) link
You were angry that the singer trolled football fans?
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:30 (seven years ago) link
nah he seems pretty sound tbh
― an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:38 (seven years ago) link
lol awesome, welcome to the fold! should have suggested it when you were asking what emo sounds like Crying, would have bumped it higher.
― devvvine, Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:41 (seven years ago) link
u inspired me to play romance is boring again. it has really been growing on me and the show was (maybe unsurprisingly) full of so much life + vigor compared to the album that it really made me appreciate them a lot more.
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 March 2017 20:42 (seven years ago) link
We Are Beautiful, We Are Doomed is probably their most emo album tbh. Relistened to it today and was floored by it all over again, but I also notice how much it plays like those first two Taking Back Sunday records. Same explosive, pun-based bitterness
― Evan R, Thursday, 16 March 2017 22:56 (seven years ago) link
Guys... want to join me in the
Papa was a POLLING STONE: It's the 1970s SOUL/FUNK/DISCO ~~~ TRACKS POLL
― ArchCarrier, Friday, 17 March 2017 14:57 (seven years ago) link
lol after my listening habits were affected over the last two weeks due to this poll, my spotify "discover weekly" playlist this week is 29 indie rock songs and a run the jewels track
― gr8080, Tuesday, 21 March 2017 17:13 (seven years ago) link
Heh, you should see the YouTube sidebar on my wife's laptop. Nothing but emo FULL ALBUMs.
― ArchCarrier, Tuesday, 21 March 2017 21:55 (seven years ago) link
I can't stop listening to False Cathedrals. It gets better with each listen.
― cajunsunday, Tuesday, 21 March 2017 22:18 (seven years ago) link
Lol yeah my YouTube suggested videos is all emo all the time now.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 22 March 2017 00:09 (seven years ago) link
Probably listened to that Saetia album 4-5 times in the past week or so.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 22 March 2017 00:10 (seven years ago) link
Shortly after the poll results came in, I felt strangely compelled to try to get in touch with Arlie from Juno to let him know how well the records did. He got back to me a few weeks ago.
Hi Simon, thank you! That is very surprising and kind. Apologies for delay, infrequently check FB. Xo, Arlie
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 20 August 2017 03:26 (six years ago) link
hey thats cool!
― Spottie, Sunday, 20 August 2017 04:22 (six years ago) link
that's awesome!
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Sunday, 20 August 2017 04:27 (six years ago) link
also we gotta redo this now that the new brand new is out
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Sunday, 20 August 2017 04:28 (six years ago) link
i'd put new brand new, manchester orchestra and sorority noise on my ballot today
― Mordy, Sunday, 20 August 2017 04:33 (six years ago) link
run it back baby
― Spottie, Sunday, 20 August 2017 04:36 (six years ago) link
we could always do a trax polllllll
My daughter was playing with the chickens today. One of their feathers is still laying in the hallway, and it looks almost exactly like this:
http://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3459241029_10.jpg
― ArchCarrier, Saturday, 26 August 2017 20:12 (six years ago) link
for your consideration: fightstar's grand unification
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CXSe8Sqrxk
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Sunday, 5 August 2018 15:50 (five years ago) link
just kind of a perfectly ambitious prog emo record, fits snugly among the early coheed albums + there are deftonesy screaming breakdowns!! i'm probably extra attached to it bc it's a concept album loosely based on evangelion lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMIAIf_IFM0
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Sunday, 5 August 2018 16:01 (five years ago) link
Oooooh
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Sunday, 5 August 2018 16:03 (five years ago) link
We should really do a tracks poll someday.
― ArchCarrier, Sunday, 5 August 2018 21:43 (five years ago) link
thanks for the tip on fightstar, these guys rock
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 14 August 2018 00:08 (five years ago) link