Any reason why ILM is so quiet these days?

xp I'm not following. There's toxicity in that thread?

in what universe is me being mad at forks for making playlists out of rolling thread discussion a toxic environment that leads to ppl being doxxed for liking drake??

there are maybe a couple people that actively irritate me, a few I joke with but appreciate (usually the list-obsessive or deep divers on ilm, the idiosyncratic grumps on ile movie and politics threads) and a bunch I really enjoy and think make that clear?

the thing I learned most in life out of a dark period is that making a point to express appreciation is important in life. without being a grandiose weirdo, if possible

a) the fact that something as simple as making playlists, which would not even register as a problem to 99% of the "newcomers" you're talking about, can make one the subject of a pile-on thread is, I would say, toxicity

b) I'm not saying this environment is like that, I'm just saying that people are approaching this question with very different realms of possibility in mind

(also, A) becomes a lot more charged for those whose real-life identities are associated with their posts.)

a pile-on thread

Yes 181
Not 28

I'm going off the contents of (and existence of) the thread itself

well there's certainly toxicity about certain subjects here, i mean i don't think the main spotify thread was more than 0.5% toxic but the 0.5% was particularly nasty and creepy.

I guess I need to re-read that thread. I thought it was pretty civil, and I say that as one of the 28

I still don't know who the dickhole dads are. I have seen no evidence that they exist.

I am a mediocre ILM poster at best but music is one of the most important facets of my life and I find great value in knowing that there are others out there for whom it is also important. It's a bonus that many ILM posters write such memorable prose. I appreciate the "up your game" effect but in practice it just means that I post more when I'm drunk.

i called ppl lazy turds for listening to the playlists & not reading the thread

i guess that could be considered toxic but really i think its more just vivid juvenilia

no one, btw, has insisted ppl should participate in the genre threads. just that if you're going to brain drain them, you should at least be reading the convo & not merely plucking every audio file discussed absent context

oh i also said ban forks but i thought that was obvious hyperbole

i do wish they'd ban his playlists, though.

if that's the opinion you have, sure, but having this opinion means you can't really complain too much about the site's lack of appeal to the overwhelming majority of music listeners who find the idea of "brain draining" via listening to a playlist mind-boggling petty and stupid, let alone the idea that making some playlists is grounds for a callout thread

calling me petty and stupid seems pretty toxic, idk

Is forks still around? I was fond of him or her.

I didn't call you petty or stupid. I did, however, call the idea of getting upset about somebody else's playlists petty and stupid, which it is.

feel like things are getting a bit closed off on the internet in general. purity tests and fascism all around. i was banned from one message board twice recently, each time writing a total of 2 posts that were not abusive or directed at any other posters. i got accused of trying to stomp out free speech, trying to silence people, mistaking my opinion for me saying that everyone has to think this way. they banned me for trying to censor people, it is kind of hilarious.

ILX seems more loose and free-wheeling, like a controlled experiment. sometimes people get banned, but you have to be a sustained disaster. ILX isn't swarming with trolls and quality control is good overall. sometimes people are overly negative, and will respond to anything you say with a personal insult rather than contributing to the discussion. you have to just let it go and treat them as a temporary troll. getting upset only makes you look like an idiot, trolling them even further. this might be entertaining but probably not for you. just walk away.

tbh reading older threads is sometimes very painful. there was a lot of casual hate, a lot more public xenophobia and ironic shaming and stuff in the early years.

I missed that thread but I assumed it was an ethical objection that people have that Spotify is bad for artists?

alas no

fwiw, obviously limited sample, anecdotal evidence not actually evidence, etc. but I asked a couple people whether they found it unethical for someone to make a Spotify playlist of the songs on a discussion forum. responses: "no"; "i... no"; "uh"; "I can't imagine caring about this"; "wherever this argument is happening is somewhere I never want to be"

imo debating about whether a not-100% listening link (songs excluded not due to whims of artist but of licensing and release format), benefitting one vendor being a good thing is a good thread. while not one-to-one, would we be cool with an unofficial "here's everything on one record label from this thread" but link to the label website every time that popped up? if it was a major label, and they did so like clockwork?

it's not as simple as "welcome to being on ilx, fuck you for not listening to spotify!" but close. I voted that having such a link is fine but I think the conversation is essential. I have subscribed to at least one streaming service for every month of last year and playlists are good but it's always a run to the middle when you want to just listen to all the shit you want to listen to. There are a couple up-and-coming companies again doing cross-network playlists but yeah, they are looking for a cut, too

not recognizing specific influences and exclusionary forces, even if people are a little potshot-firing on the thread, is antithetical to the idea of people simply finding and listening to music

ha, there are sooooo many threads like this in february. going back years. cruelest month to be honest with other ilxors. just so you know.

i'm gonna read the whole thing though.

katherine, were those people regulars on forums or people who had tried or considered streaming from a few places? I'd ask them how they felt about, say, their new album only being on the company they didn't stream from, not something that was unrelatable

february and august usually.

When winter is tiring and the dog days are going. Makes sense.

otm

a) yes b) yes, because in 2017 it's more remarkable not to have

as far as "unrelatable" that's kind of my entire argument

fair enough, then why question why people getting het up at one service having priority is weird? because lord know no one is gonna meticulously counter-post other tracks because forks has more patience than most

iirc the original argument was that forks was somehow making a buck from spotify by ~leveraging~ posters' freely-offered knowledge. the rest is mostly frustrated gatekeeping

oh

I demand forks tax returns

The argument was definitely not "I don't like spotify, it is bad, here are some other links to non-spotify versions of these tracks". It was "these goddamn dilettantes stealing our precious precious knowledge".

Drake sucks!

(just got to that part...)

Fuck Spotify too. sounds like shit. canned shit!

The argument was definitely not "I don't like spotify, it is bad, here are some other links to non-spotify versions of these tracks". It was "these goddamn dilettantes stealing our precious precious knowledge".

― emil.y, Tuesday, February 7, 2017 9:58 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

iirc it started out as the latter but drew in the former

the fundamental disconnect with the former might be, you may see it as advertising spotify or whatever, but most people simply see it as making a playlist, using one of the more well-known/well-stocked playlist services

there is no way in hell i'm reading that spotify thread though. polls have been blissfully invisible to me for years now. did you know you could do that? i will note maura's comment though:

ah, february, the month of internet arguing

― maura, Thursday, February 4, 2016 1:39 AM (one year ago)

i see those playlists as forks being bonkers! doesn't it take forever? but he must find it fun. and fun is cool.

i had no problem with glenn using ilx for his mkultra spotify branding guinea pig flow chart test experiments either or whatever the conspiracy theory there was. who can remember? because glenn is a non-malevolent super-genius.

I'm with scott 2018

recently reread big chunks of the beardo disco thread and that is peak ilm for me. a more or less consistently evolving discussion with a high volume of posts over a period of several years, good faith arguments about genre definitions considered from different perspectives, lots of varied opinions about relative quality of records without much snark or unnecessary aggression, plenty of opportunity to discover things old and new. history and context, a good mix of knowledgeable pros and enthusiastic schlubs, inclusive yet without that difficult "new poster sheds his rockist skin" phase. and it's all there to go back to whenever you like, unlike discussions on social media. ilm at its best.

iirc that kind of thing attracted gr8080

jesus christ

fwiw, obviously limited sample, anecdotal evidence not actually evidence, etc. but I asked a couple people whether they found it unethical for someone to make a Spotify playlist of the songs on a discussion forum. responses: "no"; "i... no"; "uh"; "I can't imagine caring about this"; "wherever this argument is happening is somewhere I never want to be"

― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Tuesday, February 7, 2017 8:31 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

congratulations on arguing w/ yourself ... no one said it was "unethical" ffs we just said it was "lame & weaksauce"

The argument was definitely not "I don't like spotify, it is bad, here are some other links to non-spotify versions of these tracks". It was "these goddamn dilettantes stealing our precious precious knowledge".

― emil.y, Tuesday, February 7, 2017 9:58 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im not concerned with my 'precious knowledge' i literally am providing free content on this site & have done so for years?

you guys are trying to re-litigate this argument under the guise of caring about the quality of the conversation & how "toxic" it is, its extremely transparent and also weak as fuck

id like to point out that someone observed the hip hop thread was the biggest rolling thread by some measure so maybe the ppl who actually participate in it might have an issue w/ how it's consumed & that's not crazy or absurd

More cultural competence when dealing with music mentioned on the rolling hip hop thread.

people asked why there aren't more newcomers, I pointed out a pervasive pattern that is likely to scare off newcomers. I mean, I could lie and say I have no idea

I joined ILX as a young teen for the quality of its Blue Man Group content. Maybe we need more of that.