Is Rakim possibly the best rapper

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I've never understood why anyone considers Jay-Z to be the best MC of this or any other time - I mean, I love a load of his stuff but the actual rapping is often the least engaging thing about his music, it often sounds a bit ponderous to me.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick, do Primus also have rhythm and style? ;)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000063BPE.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 December 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

>I've never understood why anyone considers Jay-Z to be the >best MC of this or any other time - I mean, I love a load of his >stuff but the actual rapping is often the least engaging thing >about his music, it often sounds a bit ponderous to me.

I think he can talk about the same topics with consistently interesting vocabulary, never mind his presence, flow, and how enjoyable he is to listen to. Can't be beat on punchlines and he's made at least three excellent albums. If you use Kool Moe Dee's report card for him I think he'd rank near the top of most lists. Though it's a personal thing... I just go back to his stuff, get more out of it, and enjoy a lot of it, more than I can say for a lot of artists. I think the persona he's created makes him more interesting and reveals more as you listen to him. Oh yeah, he's also unbeatable on punchlines. Plus you can argue he got better as he went along. He's a special case. One final thing: he can go from believing he's untouchable to throwing in jokes on tracks and having fun. As you can see, there's something that makes him more interesting to me than most others.

― Adam Harrison-Friday, Friday, 12 December 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Kool Moe ranked himself
over L.L. Cool J, so
it's clearly bullshit.

having said that now,
Adam you've just made a real
good case for Jay-Z!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 12 December 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

it occurs to me
that no one has said "L.L."
yet, so I will here.

that guy had a streak
that no one has touched on earth:
albums 1-4

sure his later stuff
is more hit and miss, but still
he deserves respect

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 12 December 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

Rakim was the best of his tim yes and is still one of the greatest ever but Biggie and Pac in my opinion were the 2 best , but you also got Big L Harlems finest , the best out there today is betweene Em and 50

― Buddy Robertson, Monday, 5 January 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

the people saying slick rick over rakim are the people who are right. the one saying kool g rap is the most shamefully overlooked, thats right too. pharoahe monch is the greatest ever in terms of virtuoso like abilities, he can do the things no one else can like a hendrix type person.

― luk2, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

E-40

― peckham rye, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

your fuckin kidding me right fuck rahkim when it comes to to sheer lyrics and medafors but ma nigga styles got the hood and the flow on lock and that nigga casidy is a up and coming problem for all u sucka ass old school fans that shit is dead move on!!!!

― oc12, Friday, 12 March 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

and that nigga casidy is a up and coming problem for all u sucka ass old school fans

I really like imagining that there's a bunch of old-school fans huddled together in a dark basement somewhere discussing threats to the hegemony - "OK, what are we gonna do about Cassidy, if he keeps making good records our plans for Old School World Domination are gonna be in some deep shit - Mikhail! dig up some dirt on this Cassidy fellow while I listen to this Ultramagnetic MC's 12" I copped on eBay"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 12 March 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"Ho...tel...mo...tel...holidae INNNNN"
"sayWHAT?!"

Cassidy is clearly the GOAT.

― djdee2005, Friday, 12 March 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

" If Skills sold truth/ truth be told/ I would probably be/ Lyrically Talib Kweli/ Truthfully I wanna rhyme like common sense/ Be I did five mill/ And Ain't been rapping like common since" I think that Jay-Z should considered one of the best rappers ever. I love Nas, Pac, Em, and the rest but Jay stuck to his style for eight years and made eight albums with 4 classics.
1. Reasonable Doubt
2. Vol 2. Hard Knock Life
3. The Blueprint
4. The Black Album

― Chris Matthews, Saturday, 13 March 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

Tupac #1, Biggie #2, Rakim #3, Krs-1 #4, Kool G Rap #5, Nas #6, Mos Def #7, Royce the 5'9 #8, Eminem #9, O.C. #10. This is the most accurate list, well b/c its mine, but b/c it includes lyrical prowess, influence, and the ability to strive through changes in the game and survive critics who keep hating. I know my shit, and I might not be totally right in this, but all things said, I am pretty damn close...

― Jeff Anderson, Sunday, 28 March 2004 06:44 (twenty-two years ago)

lyrical prowess, influence, and the ability to strive through changes in the game and survive critics who keep hating.

2pac at number one?!

― djdee2005, Sunday, 28 March 2004 08:00 (twenty-two years ago)

KRS-1 #4 ?????

― The Rebukes of Hazard (mjt), Sunday, 28 March 2004 08:24 (twenty-two years ago)

KRS-1 #4 ?????

How is this unbelievable, by the standards he listed?

― djdee2005, Sunday, 28 March 2004 09:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Jeff Anderson's list. That is a very good list. It's probably pretty close to the truth. Oh well.

― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm, Tupac is definitely underrated, but to rate him the best rapper of all time is kinda bold.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I always found it difficult for me personally to say who is the greatest rapper of all time. Every rapper had different styles. They are many underrated rappers like BIG L, Kool G Rap, KRS-ONE, Talib Kweli, Common, Royce da 5'9", and many members of Wu-Tang. Jeff Anderson's was good, but why Royce and Mos ahead of Eminem. If you put Mos in there you have to add Talib. Big L defintely belongs in the top 10 in every list I believe like he said "how come you can listen to my first album you can tell where a lot of niggas got there style from" I think he was referring to Jay-Z, correct me if I'm wrong. 2pac was a great rapper, but I don't remember him as a rapper, but more as a person. What Pac stood for and what he believed in he was an activist and realized rap was away to address the public. Now onto Rakim, he was a different sound to use the metaphors in such complex ways was unheard of. A lot of rappers took Rakims style of rhyming like Nas and AZ (another unknown). Rakim is one of the greatest because I see it as this if you give credit to Nas it first has to go through Rakim, but Rakim taught Nas a lot of about spitting. I think the best has to broken into categories like the best story teller I believe is Biggie because the way he did it. So if you want to say who's the best you have to say it in there category.

― Sdot, Monday, 29 March 2004 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "influence"--greatest-rapper-of-all-time lists are so rockist

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 29 March 2004 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

If you put Mos in there you have to add Talib.

er, no you don't

― oops (Oops), Monday, 29 March 2004 07:48 (twenty-two years ago)

#1 Egyptial Lover
#2 Apache Indian
#3 Black Rob

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

krs isn't #1! oh wait, i'm sorry i lied.

he's #'s 1 2 3 4 and 5.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

(not really)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe if we had one of those things like Leela from Futurama where we could determine an MC's mad rhyme-busting success rate ("I believe that qualifies as ill")

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 29 March 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread (esp. Jeff Anderson's list, stodgy almost to the point of self-parody) proves most everything I said on the thread below:

Technique in Rap and Rock

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

'stodgy to the point of self parody'??? what the fuck does that mean?
my list goes:
1.2 Pac
2.Mannie Fresh
3.Bun B
4.Jadakiss
5.Eminem
6.Lil Wayne
7.Snoop
8.E40
9.Lil Keke
10.Nas

― jack who, take what, Monday, 29 March 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"'stodgy to the point of self parody'??? what the fuck does that mean?"

Start with mikestands up rectums. And then work from there.

(You also might wanna check that link.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hmm, Tupac is definitely underrated"

By who? And COMPARED to who? Jeff Buckley???

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

(You also might wanna check that link.)

Dude Mannie Fresh was #2 on his list...

Also I still think you are approaching hip-hop with a different system of values (and I'm not talking about supremacy of technique here) than myself. And I don't think its fair to say that anyone who disagrees with you that L'Trimm is one of the best hip-hop acts of the 80s is a technique-obsessed rockist.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The list I called stodgy didn't have Mannie Fresh on it, DJdee. (I didn't mind that other one; e.g., I DO think Lil Wayne is underrated.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm down with anybody who can rap about Baudelaire...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 29 March 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

You'd like Peter Laughner, then! (And Serge Gainsbourg, maybe.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

In fact, Chuck, I do! I've taken the guitar player for a ride!

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 29 March 2004 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

you might really like royce, chuck! maybe you'd like his earlier party-rap even more. The trackmasterz produced "you can't touch" is great on that style. Also everyone else who hears about royce will like him too, so you should run a review, nudgenudge.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Royce is too boring for anyone to ever like. I can't see how people could handle mixtapes and shit from the guy. He's like any other painfully generic unlikeable rapper out there (Nature, Skillz, etc).

― Rollie Pemberton (Rollie Pemberton), Monday, 29 March 2004 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha Rollie OTM.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

haha finally i find a rapper that i think me & the "skillz" set will both like and NO! wtf? i mean he's more melodic than rakim or nas by a longshot, verbally plenty complex, does he just not have enough dumb "i r00l this -><- much" jokes for you?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there something secretly poptastic about royce i'm missing that brings the h8?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"melodic" = rockist value when discussing rappers.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually I think it's something anti-poptastic. I like him though.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"melodic" = popist value when discussing rappers.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

You're imposing a set of values on a genre that doesn't follow that line of thought.

Whats the diff between saying "this rapper isn't melodic enough" and "this beat doesn't use real instruments"?

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Okayplayer?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay I know like one person who will think that was funny. Pls ignore thx k bye.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean I understand the "popist" line of thought but then how do you explain (and perhaps I'm making an assumption here) all the love you guys give Dizzee Rascal (whom I also dig)? I mean, his stuff is pretty anti-pop in its cacophony.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"You're imposing a set of values on a genre that doesn't follow that line of thought."

Which is obviously not as much fun, or as honest, or as interesting, as kissing the genre's butt as if he was the teacher's pet, right?

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

An assumption you're making.

If I was "kissing a genre's butt" how could I appreciate Dizzee Rascal?

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, you sound like Pete Townshend's dad telling him he's not supposed to do that with a guitar, you know? Since when do genres make the rules for people thinking about them?

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

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Is Rakim possibly the best rapper - ever?