also, that song kills even if you are not privy to what Shakey referenced here. but that's obv. just one man's opionion
― dell, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link
opinion, even
yeah, maybe i can admire it-- but it doesn't really change the fact that it sounds slick and empty, does it?
I dunno, do you complain that music about anger is loud and abrasive? or that music about sex is rhythmic? or that music about romance is lush and sweet?
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:26 (fifteen years ago) link
i had to take a break from steely dan; like i couldn't listen to them for a couple years...but now "rose darling" is killing me. i apologize for the micro-livebloggery, but i'm trying to put the "L" back into ILM
― dell, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:27 (fifteen years ago) link
Yes, if it's Korn. Yes, if it's 2 Live Crew. Yes, if it's Peabo Bryson.
― res, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Anyway, liking the sentiment does not automatically make the music good. I don't want to listen to slick, overproduced 70's jazz-rock no matter how clever it is. I simply don't like that kind of music.
― res, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:35 (fifteen years ago) link
this has taken a turn for the hongro
― PappaWheelie V, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:35 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't want to listen to slick, overproduced 70's jazz-rock
-- res, Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link
why u posting in the steely dan thread then dummy
― and what, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:37 (fifteen years ago) link
2 Live Crew had two great singles!
I don't want to listen to slick, overproduced 70's jazz-rock no matter how clever it is. I simply don't like that kind of music.
Have you tried to listen to it? Why is "slick" bad? Are you suggesting that "raw" is good? And what is "overproduced" anyway?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:37 (fifteen years ago) link
2 Live Crew had two great singles! albums!
― PappaWheelie V, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link
2 Live Crew were fucking awesome
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:39 (fifteen years ago) link
I guess we should change all the C/D threads on ILM to just C then
― res, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:40 (fifteen years ago) link
anyplace where 2 live crew and steely dan are consolidated feels like home
― PappaWheelie V, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:40 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah overproduced would imply that the artist has fucked with the production to the extent that it has undermined the material - which is pretty much the exact opposite of what the Dan does. In almost every instance, their production perfectly compliments the material and is VERY thoughtfully and carefully applied.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:42 (fifteen years ago) link
overproduced is obviously a subjective term; to suggest it is anything else is ridiculous.
― res, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:43 (fifteen years ago) link
you should search the archives for the "can we find an artist that everyone on ILM likes?" threads. (hint: we couldn't)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:43 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm surprised there aren't more Dan haters to be honest.
When I first started getting into music, Steely Dan was a really really bad phrase. I first heard the name as a butt of a joke by some comedian on TV in the 80s.
It was until the 90s CD reissues that I heard the appeal, saw the light, etc. but as a Steely Dan lover, I'm not surprised by people who think they feel empty.
That said, I think anyone who doesn't like the music should go to the Dan's website and read their essays. You don't have to like the music to like Fagen/Becker's humor/sarcasm/whatever.
― Mackro Mackro, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:45 (fifteen years ago) link
honestly too, i always feel like ppl exagerate how much of a "jazz rock" band steely dan was just cuz of some of the session dudes they used
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:50 (fifteen years ago) link
res, do you like Soft Machine per chance?
― Mackro Mackro, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Honestly, their most fervent supporters promote SD's lyrics rather too strenuously. I mean, their early stuff just rocked! And Fagen has almost everything I need from a singer of rock: wry, pinched, capable of unexpected grace notes.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:53 (fifteen years ago) link
i come from the opposite pov -- i was not a rock fan first, so it was the jazz oriented chords/harmonics that made them one of the first acts i fell in love with (70s stevie wonder & earth, wind & fire being the 2 major others).
I feel like to find the more direct "rock" element, you have to go back to 1972 with them.
xx-post
― PappaWheelie V, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Alfred otm
― dell, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:54 (fifteen years ago) link
but i'm a total sucker for their jazzy harmonic shit. chord changes sublime abound within their catalog
― dell, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:55 (fifteen years ago) link
Alfred OTM^2. My favorite album is Can't Buy A Thrill for that reason.(Aja second for other reasons.)
― Mackro Mackro, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Also, Can't Buy A Thrill was my gateway to liking Steely Dan, so maybe this is a good album for haters(?)
― Mackro Mackro, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:58 (fifteen years ago) link
Honestly, their most fervent supporters promote SD's lyrics rather too strenuously. I mean, their early stuff just rocked! And Fagen has almost everything I need from a singer of rock
yeah my favorites are actually all the pre-Aja albums, tbh. I dunno about yr first sentence here tho - I am reminded of a conversation I was having with some studio engineers about Steely Dan, and they were all effusive about how great the records sounded and how tight and complex everything was, but when I mentioned how I loved how all that stuff contrasted with the lyrics I got blank stares, dudes didn't know "Dr. Wu" was about a junkie or that "Movies" was about a pedo. I lol'd.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:59 (fifteen years ago) link
those guys were musicians/studio engineers tho so maybe that's a bad example. Writers/critics are obviously gonna pay a bit more attention to language.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:00 (fifteen years ago) link
it made me a convert too
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:01 (fifteen years ago) link
Well, I've said on the Gaucho thread that it's my favorite album after Countdown to Ecstasy -- on a purely musical level too.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:07 (fifteen years ago) link
res, do you like Soft Machine per chance
don't think i've heard them. why?
well, i will try this thrill album just to expand my efforts... i tried aja and pretzel logic but several successive showers failed to make me feel clean afterwards, so i didn't think that there were others that might change my tune. we'll soon see.
― res, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:07 (fifteen years ago) link
I think the one thing I would hold against the Dan is that pretty much all their sleeve designs/album covers suck, with the exception of Katy Lied.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:11 (fifteen years ago) link
aja is a beautiful cover!!!
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:12 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^ this
― HI DERE, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:13 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^^this
― omar little, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:13 (fifteen years ago) link
its... stylish, I'll give Phil Hartman that. I don't particularly like it tho. A bunch of their covers (Gaucho, Can't Buy a Thrill, the Royal Scam, Pretzel Logic) are downright stupid and/or ugly
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:16 (fifteen years ago) link
phil hartman: stylish indeed
http://www.tributes.com/obits/tributes/phil_hartman/2680-1-photo.jpg
― PappaWheelie V, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:19 (fifteen years ago) link
:(
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:19 (fifteen years ago) link
Royal Scam & CBAT, no doubt. I'm not that fond of Countdown, either. But the rest are A-ok with me.
― will, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link
Can't Buy A Thrill's cover is really gawdy but the rest are just fine.
― Mackro Mackro, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:24 (fifteen years ago) link
the Pretzel Logic cover has a pretzel vendor on it. Get it? GET IT? For a couple guys with an otherwise sharp and unique sense of humor that joke is kinda uhhhh
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:26 (fifteen years ago) link
i think the sarcasm thing is overplayed, and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time. aja's a beautiful record. the lyrics are compressed, bittersweet short stories. they're never glib. they kind of remind me of raymond carver stories, actually. steely dan: more populist than punk?
― strgn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:30 (fifteen years ago) link
uhhhh the pretzel logic cover's great
― strgn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:32 (fifteen years ago) link
the only one i don't like is 'countdown to ecstasy.' that font.
― strgn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:34 (fifteen years ago) link
and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive - beauty and skin depth and all that yaknow...
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:35 (fifteen years ago) link
okay- how do you guys feel about "Reelin' in the Years"?
― res, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:36 (fifteen years ago) link
Dueling guitars!
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:37 (fifteen years ago) link
i think the sarcasm thing is overplayed, and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time.
yes. that.
― dell, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:38 (fifteen years ago) link
solos are a little much on that one. harmonies on the chorus are killer. lyrics and lead vocal delivery are great. but not the best song on the album.
x-post
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:38 (fifteen years ago) link
"Reelin'" isn't a favorite either. "Do It Again" (which I thought for years was a really sexy Santana song my parents never told me about), sultry and mysterio-so, is lots better.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:39 (fifteen years ago) link
only a fool would say that
― omar little, Thursday, 26 June 2008 23:41 (fifteen years ago) link