Awesome Audiophile Snake Oil

well, uh, there are the known physical and audio properties of materials when it comes to electrical conductivity, isolation, and media sample rate, etc

the known unknowns, like quality of particular components that they're hedging by getting super high quality versions of cables or whatever, buying a receiver that costs 10x more just in case

then there are possible unknown unknowns when you're hedging against factors that may or may not be real, which is where most of this thread falls. lots of misrepresentations of material science and electrical engineering, or hedging against a lack of scientific knowledge by buying wholesale into concepts with no backing whatsoever

you can spend all your time optimizing the first part, and spending a little cash on part two, and everything will sound great. if you need a woo sticker to really get the best sound, go for it

so saying "they're right" is bonkers to me because yeah they have a great sounding stereo but the crap in this thread is like homeopathy only these ppl luckily aren't affecting anything other than their financial health

Absolutely mental.

I kind of don't doubt that there's something in, let's say, the 'mindfulness' of listening; if you're comfortably, happy, relaxed, able to pay attention, than your perception of sound is bound to be better. I kind of think that's what they're doing, they're just doing it with a cream chemical or a piece of tinfoil?

xposts

imo it's a lot like homeopathy in that they're drinking water, everyone drinks water, but they think the special properties of their water make it do things for you

the "USB signal cleaner" things that are definitely a growing audiophile obsession really kill me

so saying "they're right" is bonkers to me because yeah they have a great sounding stereo but the crap in this thread is like homeopathy only these ppl luckily aren't affecting anything other than their financial health

― mh, Wednesday, August 24, 2016 9:33 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no i was trying to put myself in their shoes is what i'm saying, not that stickers make any difference but like putting myself down the rabbit hole of this...their stereos sound good because good equipment sounds really good! but then if you are doing like 10 million weird tweaks and constantly upgrading your equipment etc then you get into this whole trap of "well which element of this complex soup of actual good equipment and high quality but questionably effective stuff like $500 cables and out-and-out snakeoil is actually make *the difference*", i understand how people could fall into this rabbit hole is all

oh sure, there are lots of little obsessions, I definitely have a few. I try to keep scientific rationalizations out of my irrationality but it's a slippery slope

like did you guys just ignore my previous post or what?

these last few are the best yet because they really drop the veneer of science and truly embrace the religiosity that's core to trv kvlt audiophile snake oil...."weird shit goes on", "irrational", "sense of whimsey" - it's all strange forces beyond our understanding that must be appeased with weird little reflective stickers

― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:29 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well they're sending me a free sample so I'm gonna put it to the underrated aero test which as we all know is the only truly objective test for sound

Good posts, ums. As always.

But could you get behavioral psychologists in and try and assess what's going on that way? Or biochemists and systems biology people? "Presence of this chemical increases brain activity in the 'hearing sounds' bit of your noggin" for instance? ie there's more to science than electrical engineering.

imo appeasing strange forces is the best pursuit

You guys could also just visit an audiophile, realistic scenario (as pointed out xp): he will himself doubt the "science" behind a lot of the choices in his setup, but it will sound fantastic

Unless it's a woman in which case different pronouns

what does fantastic sound like

yeah we're getting into complicated problems in phenomenal consciousness here

i sacrifice rabbits to make my albums sound better

I want to collaborate with Karl Malone on a site that uses the spotify api to seem official but really just shows you some surreal shit that is supposed to fix the "energy spectrum of your spotify".

pictured: me listening to an original pressing of Bitches Brew on my Rega P1

http://66.media.tumblr.com/c0a2ca49b66b431964cbff7bf402ecee/tumblr_mzf1lgiwaM1ralxhxo1_500.jpg

haha :D

anyway, I'm all for having fun w/ snake oil - it's just... maybe sometimes this thread is derailed towards a type og scientific skepticism that I associate with scientism and anti-spiritualism

and while I'm an atheist myself, I never took much pleasure in mocking religious beliefs

would maybe feel that way if the profit margins on the snake oil were lower

As usual, a distinction between a religious movement and an exploitative cult is that religions aren't strictly pay-to-play.

eh i mean i doubt this isn't anyone who ain't got it to begin with and is this or buying luxury cars or boats or bigger TVs a "worse" for of consumerism, it's i know ppl who are obsessed with golf club tech and like weird little permutations of how they arrange the dimples on a golf ball for "better aerodynamics"

i wonder how this song sounds with morphic message foils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqAxXOBYxCw

these foils turn every album into breakfast in america by supertramp

imo find your own joy

also I own like a zillion pairs of headphones

more to my point upthread, read this about some Adidas running shoes...is this any less bullshit pseudoscience? no. Are these shoes probably really comfotable to run in? yes.

adidas today brings unprecedented comfort and energy to runners with the launch of its most technically-advanced running shoe yet, Ultra BOOST. The full-length BOOST midsole is comprised of 3,000 energy capsules – 20 percent more than any shoe to date. The carefully-engineered Primeknit upper provides a precision fit and maximum breathability, while the midsole technology returns energy with each step.....
..

A Stretch Web outsole with a perforated, elastic design puts runners closer to the BOOST cushioning, allowing them to maximize the energy-return benefits. A new heel construction comfortably cradles the foot and adjusts to the Achilles tendon's natural movements. For a customized fit and feel, a new, featherweight sock liner adapts to runners' individual foot forms. Ultra BOOST also boasts a new dual-density TORSION® SYSTEM, embedded into the shoe's base. This allows for more independent movements between the heel and forefoot, giving runners superior stability and a smooth, controlled run.

To ensure Ultra BOOST can deliver ultimate comfort and energy return mile after mile, adidas put the shoe through the ARAMIS testing system most commonly used by institutions including NASA, Boeing and Audi.

"Each technology featured in Ultra BOOST was built to complement each other providing energized adaptability through a customized fit, look and feel," said Ben Herath, vice president of design for adidas Running. "While we've taken innovation to the next level, the sleek silhouette of Ultra BOOST is built to look as good as it performs."

imo the audiophile equivalent would be "we added a piece of reflective tape to the front to stop ultraviolet waves from slowing your running speed"

i'm not sure there's a huge gap between that and "The full-length BOOST midsole is comprised of 3,000 energy capsules"

isn't that marketing speak for bouncy balls

http://www.plasticsportal.net/wa/plasticsEU/portal/show/common/content/campaigns/infinergy/english/index.html

imo I want headphones covered in this now

possibilities for the future of audiophilic talismans (talismen?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emerging_technologies#Materials_science

as an ex runner and having talked to a bunch of people about running shoes, that's just a pr piece. it doesn't mean the shoe is good or bad

there are many types of feet and strides. weight, posture, knees and sole fat are contributing factors in what you find to be comfortable

what was quoted answers almost none of this information, and few articles do. that's why it's better to just try on the shoe

i'm not sure it is comparable to audio hardware

otm

I honestly am sad about the state of materials science research in north america. All the stock speculation has led to research drying up. I can buy kevlar headphone cables, but where is the kevlar of tomorrow? Not in the USA, I'll tell you that.

imo completely comparable to audio hardware because listeners have a different "fit" for what they want, whether it's making something sound exactly like it sounded in the studio or making it sound like it's live. also where you're going to use your speakers, etc, much like indoor versus outdoor runners

I prefer that my speaker setup recreates the audio aesthetic of a Sony boombox w/cd player circa 1992

some people are "chasing the dragon", I am "looking for Mega Bass (tm)"

i guess i can kind of see that

i only have a few mid-priced headphones i've ever used (even in studios), but choosing the right headphones or speakers to me sounds more subjective

for me, the point of a running shoe is to relieve foot stress and give me better stability/grip for quite probably X amount of time, whether i'm doing short or long runs. it's more pragmatic/practical

i don't see how listening to a pair of speakers and trying on a pair of shoes is that different i guess

both have very definable physical characteristics, can be measured and quantified in different ways (maximum volume and response to different frequencies versus things like durability and material response to impact) but how those things relate to our personal preferences and comfort vary

if you're an olympic sprinter materials definitely matter, or if you run a lot and your arches are crap

I honestly am sad about the state of materials science research in north america. All the stock speculation has led to research drying up. I can buy kevlar headphone cables, but where is the kevlar of tomorrow? Not in the USA, I'll tell you that.

― mh, Wednesday, August 24, 2016 12:09 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lots of good (opto)electronic materials science here, though

yeah but how much of it is connected to my 401k? not enough!

I have a friend of who is always talking about how great his stereo is -- so much so that i rarely engage in an discussions about it with him. He swears by his Adcom amp, CV passive radiator speakers his sub, etc, but i've never been overly impressed because he always plays everything WAY TOO LOUD. Also, his speaker-placement renders the concept of stereo separation mute. When watching a movie a couple years ago i noticed that he didn't have his left and right channels oriented properly - so the "vision" of an object moving left-to-right "sounded" like an object moving right-to-left.

So, even without any apparent snake oil, self-deception can justify just about anything.

lol at the left/right speaker thing. that's not really a big deal with a lot of music, but if he uses the same setup for movie audio and doesn't notice it... hmm.

being clueless is probably a priceless audiophile accessory if you can manage to stop buying stuff

I have saved a good $10k by going to too many shows that shaved off the high end of my hearing.

So, even without any apparent snake oil, self-deception can justify just about anything.

― bodacious ignoramus, Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:46 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don't mean to go on about this, because don't mind that i disagree with people in this thread but this is what i was suggesting yesterday

there are so many variables and audio people have all these deeply personal ideas about audio, it starts to look like producing sound is voodoo magic. then there's the "feels right/wrong" scenario. i've seen people get fancy monitors only to place it down in their untreated concrete-wall basement

i guess i can kind of see that type of thing happening with runners, but in my experience, it didn't happen often with those i spoke with

agreed -- also, like lots of other gear, i just want something that's of a certain quality and that it's reliable. I don't camp/backpack nearly as much as i used to, but i can tell you for certain that my pack/sack/shack are nearly equivalent to stuff you can buy today - same with power and hand tools -- buy the best you can afford, take good care of it, and it should last a good long time.

As for the people putting fancy monitors in an unfinished basement -- i'm ok with that if the idea is that they plan to keep it "forever" -- not the same as runners where the "tech" as well as your foot volume changes over the years -- a pure stereo amp that's 40 years old may be better than one you'll buy 40 years from now.

my feet are 24/192

the best headphones are sony eggos mdr-d77 don't @ me

there's def a reason these are in every studio or radio station in the world, not many better values than these sonys in terms of sound, build quality for sub-100 cans

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR7506-Professional-Diaphragm-Headphone/dp/B000AJIF4E

in general though i feel like sony's one of the last big electronics companies to give a shit about making good consumer stuff

Sony, really? I had such poor experiences with their gear from the 90s and oughts that i swore off their nameplate completely. Glad you have luck with them, tho.