― russ t, Thursday, 3 July 2003 08:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:10 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:25 (twenty years ago) link
Chorus: From dem a par inna chi chi man car Blaze di fire mek we bun dem!!!! (Bun dem!!!!) From dem a drink inna chi chi man bar Blaze di fire mek we dun dem!!!! (Dun dem!!!!)
Verse 1: Craigy: So mi go so, do yuh see weh I see??? Niggas when your doin that Nuff a dem a freak dem a carry all dem dutty act Thug nigga wanna bees nuff a dem a lick it back It dem bring it to we, hold on nuff a cop a shot Cop a shot rise up every calico go rat tat tat Rat tat tat every chi chi man dem haffi get flat Get flat, mi and my niggas ago mek a pack Chi chi man fi dead and dat's a fact
Verse 2: Flexx: So mi go so la la la la la la la la la la la Nah go mek nuh chi chi man walk right a so >From a bwoy a deep we ago dun dem right now Leff him whole family dem a blow wow
Alexx: I see it from far mi and dem nah go par A nuff a dem bwoy mi a smoke man cigar Mi and dem coulda never inna wrong bar Dem bwoy deh flex too bizarre
Chorus: >From dem a par inna chi chi man car Blaze di fire mek we bun dem!!!! (Bun dem!!!!) >From dem a drink inna chi chi man bar Blaze di fire mek we dun dem!!!! (Dun dem!!!!)
Repeat intro twice Repeat Verse 1 till song end
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:33 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:38 (twenty years ago) link
Best word evah!
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:45 (twenty years ago) link
this is an interesting topic,i'd love to see more discussion on this,although i'm not sure what i think myself
i don't see a huge difference between this and some of the more misogynist elements of rap- (wildflower by ghostface killah)
― robin (robin), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 10:59 (twenty years ago) link
― russ t, Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:14 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:19 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:20 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:25 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:28 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:38 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:43 (twenty years ago) link
― russ t, Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 3 July 2003 11:53 (twenty years ago) link
― russ t, Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:19 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:27 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:28 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:38 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:39 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:46 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:47 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:51 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:52 (twenty years ago) link
Last year I got very excited by a track I found by Beenie Man called "That right" whiich seemed to say "When we say bun chi chi man, everybody say that's right ... but when we bun chi chi man that no right"
Which seems to be either criticising the whole chi-chi man bunning thing, or at least asking the audience to make a distinction between art and life. But I may be optimistically misunderstanding the lyrics. Can anyone (Dave Stelfox ... do you know this?) help me out here. Is this some reflection within the dancehall community, trying to placate foreign critics or just a misunderstanding of something truly horrendous.
― phil jones (interstar), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:52 (twenty years ago) link
A couple of things: First, in regards to TOK's insisting that they are speaking of the Prime Minister in "Chi Chi Man"--This idea comes from the fact that their song was used as the campaign song for the opposition leader (Seaga--look him up on the interweb for kicks...he sold Jamaica's soul to the US in the 80s) in the last election. It was chosen because Prime Minister PJ Patterson got divorced and, in Seaga's mind, didn't remarry quickly enough--hence, im a chi-chi. The buses in Kinston are referred to as "Chi-chi buses" because public transport is one of Patterson's pet projects. Sooooo...yes, TOK ARE talking about the Prime Minister, but they are insinuating that he's gay and needs to be "bunned out."
Second:I started this thread last year--since then, I moved to Kingston and, after a few months, had to leave due to circumstances beyond my control. While I was there I worked at the University of the West Indies, went to a number of dances, met lots of folks in the recording industry, and spent quite a large portion of my time hanging out with some Bobo Ashanti dreads. Homosexuality is a topic that plain and simply IS NOT discussed in Jamaica--regardless of context. Violence and poverty (and I assure you, I have never in my life witnessed urban poverty like in Kingston) are larger issues for Jamaicans and even poverty gets short shrift due to the class divisions within Jamaican society.
So yes, Jamaica is an extremely (and violently) homophobic society, but it is a society in which the chi-chi man or batty boy has become the pariah--the personification of babylon. Babylon is also the source of oppression, so it makes as much sense (also biblically) to bun out fags as it does to bun out the capitalist psychos that have destroyed Jamaica. Of course, I think that this is faulty logic, but, like Stelfox, (and like what I wrote above) I recognize the cultural imperialism going on.
What was most interesting for me about the way in which these horrible tunes were regarded in Jamaica. Sure, there are some hits that sound good (e.g. "Living up" by Sanchez, the TOK above), but most of the violent homophobic stuff is in violent sounding music. Unfortunately, it seems that with the rise of Sean Paul, dancehall artists are taking to not really thinking about their lyrics in any way. It becomes easy to throw in a line like "Me nah wan no chi chi man, no" instead of really saying something. Thus, instead of homophobia being an unfortunate part of angry calls angainst oppressive forces, it is an unfortunate part of songs about hot gals.
When talking to dreads and bobos, I would ask about tunes like "Log On," or "Chi-chi Man." The response I got was not "It's bad when people say bad things about homosexuals," but that "it's bad when people want to resort to violence." My friend Manifes said "Why dem call pon people to 'step pon' people. Black man been stepped 'pon. I and I don't want to do same." Sounds like Stone Love will flip the fader over when a deejay makes a violent comment. Conscious sounds try not to play violent music--they want to uplift the people...So, and perhaps this might argue against the "capitalism makes people more tolerant" statement, the fact that there is money in vapidity encourages dancehall artists not to think about what they are saying. The money factor also explains why otherwise reasonable folks like Sizzla and Capleton (I know I condemned him in my first post, but I saw him live in Kingston at a tiny restaurant and he chatted all about the Iraq war and GWB...it was wicked) make nardcore dancehall tunes like "Pump up all poom poom" and "Empty the clip 'pon dem." Increasing the international market for ridiculous pop dancehall also increases the lack of thought (or respect for thought) in Jamaica. Many folks I spoke to bemoaned the lack of consciousness in music...since music is so much more of a part of Jamaican society than it is of North American or British society, positive music uplift de yout dem!
I hope this didn't come out poorly, I might have to write more later.
― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 3 July 2003 12:55 (twenty years ago) link
Postive track of the day: Sizzla "Simplicity"
― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:03 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:04 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:07 (twenty years ago) link
And boring,of course.
And what's so wrong with Morrissey?
Patois is vile slang. Lazy English. I refuse to even attempt an understanding.
― russ t, Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:10 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:12 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:15 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:17 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 13:18 (twenty years ago) link