School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

its an inbuilt limit from way back when they started making the hardware (a mix of s/w and ha/w restrictions apparently!).
basically, if you have a local digital library of more than 65K individual tracks then sonos cannot index it all.
it's a massive issue for people like me with NAS based archives as opposed to the streaming options that sonos has focused on in recent times.
i am at 62K at the moment, but still have quite a lot of my cd archive to digitise, hence the eye on the horizon.
there are a multitude of options to get around it (set up a stripped back simple windows media server to index the archive, as sonos can 'see' windows media servers),
but all the alternatives are rather fiddly.
i will probably have two separate digital archives, and index then as and when i need.
not ideal, but an easy workaround.
however, if sonos enabled DNLA compatibility then all would be lovely, but i am not holding my breath.

Ugh. I was thinking of getting one but my library is like 85k do I guess it's a no-go. I don't want to do workarounds because the point of getting a sonos would be ease of use. I really just want a speaker that's good enough to fill my 30m2 room and that I can play to from iPhones and my MacBook. I don't currently have any plans for a streaming subscription.

that seems like too much music. how can you guys possibly like/consume that amount of music?

The rather similar denon alternative HEOS supports dlna

does that HEOS push a networked digital archive into a hi-fi amp ?
i don't do sonos wireless speakers stuff, just the 'sonos connect'.
as that seems to the be the best way to feed my archive into my amp easily via a desktop app.
(i used to have a set up whereby the amp could see the archive, but the album/track selection was all via an onboard 3 line display - f*cking impossible to use !)

Have you considered something like Amazon Music? They'll let you upload 250,000 tracks for $25/year and stream through Sonos. 256kbs I think though which I guess isn't enough for some people.

With me, Chromecast + Subsonic virtual server on the computer + Subsonic app on my pad allows me to cast anything as FLACs from my computer to the amp, browse music on the app, create playlists, etc. No upper limits on the library size, AFAIK. I doubt I'll need anything fancier soon.

Have you considered something like Amazon Music? They'll let you upload 250,000 tracks for $25/year and stream through Sonos. 256kbs I think though which I guess isn't enough for some people.

never seen that before.
could be an option.

ahh .. the small print seems to indicate that you have to be an amazon prime subscriber in the uk, which i have considered signing up for, but still.

found the option for £21.99 pa.
blimey ..
yeah, thats a solution.

actually,
it looks like you need to be an amazon prime subscriber to get sonos to connect in,
and then upgrade the amazon music option to get the 250k tracks option.
as they say on dragons den : 'i'm out .. '
(but a cracking idea !)

yeah it is a lot of music...
I don't have a hifi or speakers atm (sold everything prior to moving overseas) so I liked the idea of an integrated speaker/receiver. In principle I'd like a nice system but realistically something for 3-400€ that has a good enough speaker and can p seamlessly handle iPhone / MacBook libraries would be great. Only need it for one room, don't anticipate having a big flat ever again. I don't want to buy used speakers, don't want to spend time searching. And a one-stop solution rather than jigging together various components sounds better, want few /no hassles.

does this have anything to do with george soros?

Also rocking Subsonic as the solution for the 65k file limit.

Regarding DLNA, I guess I don't understand the context of your need. I connect to my Sonos speaker using DLNA from my J River Media server. Is it different when using a NAS?

i suspect J River uses "Rhapsody UPnP" as its streaming groove.
as currently there are only 2 options within sonos : windows media server, and "R UPnP" when it comes to localised media streaming systems.
DNLA = a standardised media streaming system that most NAS drives are capable of.

does that HEOS push a networked digital archive into a hi-fi amp ?

yup, analog and digital pre-outs on the heos link:
https://usa.denon.com/us/heos-link

Definitely not using Rhapsody UPnP - the Sonos speaker shows up as a DLNA renderer in my system.

Have you thought about hooking up a Sonos Connect directly to your NAS? That's supposed to work a charm.

Anyone here have a Sonos Playbar?

Have you thought about hooking up a Sonos Connect directly to your NAS? That's supposed to work a charm.

not sure how that is even possible, or why that would make any difference !?
i have sonos connect wired up via wired network/router as opposed to wi-fi, so as direct as it can be as far as i can tell.
checked that denon option.
looks good,but not sure its available in the uk.
also, after your post, i enabled DNLA on the NAS drive waited hours while it indexed the archive, but it made no difference as the Sonos app still could not 'see' the DNLA server.
i even enabled the 'itunes server' option on the NAS to see if that was an option.
nope.
guess i'll just have to stop buying crappy cd from local charity shops/poundland !

Subsonic looks interesting and seems like a nice fit with Chromecast. Is anyone using Subsonic with Chromecast's multi-room playback feature?

heos certainly available in UK
http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/heoslinkhs2

don't see what good connecting a NAS with ethernet cable to a Sonos Connect would do, but it's definitely a good idea to connect the Sonos to your router with a cable - this enables a Sonos mesh-network that improves stability for all your wireless Sonos devices

are you just putting words with other words now, to see what they sound like together?

haha no it's true, swear

clear advantage to Sonos imo (over Heos, Bluesound) that it has this mesh-network ability

when i went to the saturn store (market leader for tv hifi etc. in germany) and i wanted to get a sonos play 3 - we already had the play 1 which i had set up in 5 minutes - there was a guy from bose(!) who tried to sell me the heos! he said it was much better than the bose and his main argument was that it was an open system. then we tried to plug-in my ipod and ok it worked but the built-in amplifier somehow did not do his job, i hardly heard the music, it was extremely quiet. so in the end i bought the play 3 and as there was a discount i got it for 229 euros, i think. in the end i must say i am a little bit disappointed about the speaker as to me it does not sound a lot better than the play 1. and of course i only have one speaker and i am a stereo kid, so compared to my hifi this is a step back. but for the kitchen it is ok and the setup and the control with the smartphone is dead easy. and i can hear radio (via tunein), stuff from the smartphone, stuff from the music library from my computer and from the streaming service deezer to which i have subscribed to. it is not perfect but very practical.

yeah the Play:3 is a p old model, made somewhat redundant by the newer Play:1 imo

really good solution soundwise is a connect amp or heos amp w/ 2 passive speakers, you can use any passive speakers so price from ~650$ up

sorry, the bose guy said that the heos was much better than the sonos (not the bose)!

yes i was thinking of the connect amp.

I don't think there's much sense in suggesting the active Heos speakers are better than the Sonos - but the Heos Amp definitely packs more punch (and connectivity) than Connect Amp, and you'll hear that on slightly demanding speakers.

approaching 63,000 tracks in my sonos archive (as mentioned earlier max = 65,000)
so, looked deeper into the denon/heos link solution.
all looks lovely, and became very tempted.
however, the controller app is for ios/android only.
game over for me.
back to the playlist solution then.

Can anyone recommend a NAS that works well with Sonos?

Been meaning to move everything off my laptop hard drive, and I think I need a new laptop anyway, so it might be a good time to make the leap...

re NAS drive i use a basic WD MyCloud (4TB) device thats connected to the router ..
not had a problem yet.

re the 65K limit : there is now a solution.
Sonos now supports Plex (in Beta at the moment, so hidden in the Sonos Labs options).
so, set it up last night, and despite a few niggles, it seems to do the trick.
as i am less than 1500 tracks off the limit i am pleased i can now crack on with digitising the rest of my cd archive.

well, at 64,000 tracks i hit the limit a couple of days ago.
apparently its not a solid limit.
if you have tracknames/albums with very long names then they will take up 2 spots in the library.

also, turns out that the plex option is very unreliable.

however !

for anyone else who gets to this situation, here is the easy workaround : http://anderware.org/dev/M3U4U.htm

rather than pointing sonos at your mp3 archive, using that utility, you create a mirror directory structure of your archive that contains an m3u of each album.
that way your 5000 albums takes up only 5000 spots in the library.

the only downside : the sonos search funtion no longer works as the metadata is stored in the mp3,and m3u files have none.
meaning you have have your mp3 archive structured in a clean fashion to help you can find your albums easily.
that said, if you have a set group of albums/artists that you need to get instant access to then you can add to favourites.

upside : it has no reliance on external internet connections/indexing, making it very fast, and reliable.
using that utility its simple to create the mirror directory structure, and then tweak the files so they are easier to find via sonos (eg, group all the groups beginning with A into a sub-folder, same for B, etc etc.
massively larger capacity possible.

Subsonic is so much easier and you don't lose search functionality.

i considered subsonic.
is it a freebie, as i read somewhere you haveto have a paid subscription for sonos.
also, like plex, doesn't it require an external internet connection to function ?

I think there's a small one-time fee to register your domain. And, yes, you need an Internet connection.

Surely a used Mac Mini or iMac running to your existing Airplay would be both cheaper and more configurable. I run an old iMac (2005?) to a couple of Airport Expresses and a USB DAC. iTunes is managing 30 000 + ALAC tracks (I had about 2500 CDs plus downloads) and it's not a problem. An external 2TB drive is sufficient, and running the Jacket visualiser all I see is the album sleeve in the stereo cabinet. I can control it direct via mouse/keyboard, using an Apple IR remote, the Remote app on iPhone / iPad, or via Screen Sharing from my laptop. I think the total cost was maybe $250 for the iMac and two Airports.

(also the audio is lossless 44/16 fwiw)

I finally ditched the 30 pound giant old speakers for two play:5s. Have two play:1s in the apartment as well. I use the analog inputs on the play:5s for tv and records. It is great to be rid of long snaking cables and to be listening to records broadcast everywhere. Still I'm not sure that the sound is better than my giant old monitors.

there's a freshman year of college computer speakers quality to it all that may be entirely psychological. Could be the weird "loud" eq setting they use as defalt.

Also had to turn the bass down before I coud even hear any dialogue over the rumble in a movie/tv.

I'm now thinking of getting a Connect (sans amp) and hooking it up to my Audioengine A5+'s. The best of both worlds, although they're a bit overpriced ($350), I think I can get one off eBay for considerably less.

seems like a good idea. The best part of all of this is wifi (not bluetooth) and the software.

After years of babying along my ancient Squeezeboxes, I took the plunge and replaced them with Chromecast Audios ... so far these are delivering good synchronized sound to my upstairs and downstairs receivers.

really wish the sonos app had a way of listing albums in year of release order so i could see what i have bought from this year.

Yeah, I'd like more sorting options too. I've tried to get around it somewhat by creating smart playlists in iTunes for things like releases from specific years, but that's really only practical for shuffle mode since it shows tracks, not albums. And I prefer to stream my library from Google Play, not my computer, so end up almost never using the playlists away.

They're announcing new hardware on October 4; hoping for app updates as well.

i have no interaction with anything other than my local NAS archive/sonos connect/hi-fi amp.
would rather not have to replace the connect,
as they will probably make any new kit more about streaming as opposed to local archives as thats their declared future.
i am even old school in the new school.

got the sub with discount for christmas this year. also found a way to place 5s so that they can stand vertically, tweeters on the inside. now completely satisfied with this as replacement for my giant old monitors.

also tried using alexa with sonos and almost immediately went down a road that featured alexa trying to sell me amazon music unlimited :-/

amazon is maybe good at supply chain operations and some software stuff but then bad at hardware quality and many other software things. anyway, alexa is listed under a "voice services" menu in the sonos app settings. other voice services will presumably be available some day.

I've not had to change my setup in two years (Connect plugged into my big system in the front room, NAS, additional speaker in the kitchen). It's basically perfect and the idea of integrating Alexa or any other voice control options into it is extremely offputting.

I've not had to change my setup in two years (Connect plugged into my big system in the front room, NAS, additional speaker in the kitchen). It's basically perfect and the idea of integrating Alexa or any other voice control options into it is extremely offputting.

this.