"4:13 Dream" by the Cure

i kind of doubt the existence of this record now

I get the sense that in the absence of a manager or record company enforcing a firm deadline, Robert will just tinker with things indefinitely.

I heard that he made a statement online about being unhappy with how the label were doing things when 4:13 Dream came out.

Yeah, he wanted the album to come out as a double lp (hence the leftovers) and Geffen said no supposedly

feeling much more charitible toward bloodflowers this week after giving it another listen. I found it dreadfully boring and uninspired when it came out; and it's no disintegration, certainly, but at least it sounds good, which is more than you can say for the next two records.

Jesus, the wah wah on this album is irritating.

Great set of songs, terrible production/mix.

yep

wow this is already nine years old? Is there any talk of a new album? This is by far the longest the group has ever gone without a record

There was some talk a couple of years back about 4:14 Scream, but clearly that's now been put on the back burner.

I've had 4:14 Scream in my "looking forward to" albums running list on Discogs for the last six years: https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

I'll buy it as soon as it becomes available. Low as my expectations may be.

kind of doubting a new album is ever going to show up, which is probably fine

i posted those two new songs in the C/D Cure thread on here last year when they toured the Rose Bowl. one song was excellent and the other was good, not great. i still think they should make albums, i just think Robert Smith is feed up with dealing with record companies.

Given the size of his locked-in fan base don't really see how/why distribution would be a problem for him. I think he just doesn't have the songs on him anymore

Yeah, I think it's very possible he's ran out of ideas.

Songs on him = he doesn't have access to the second part of this album or he can't write new songs?

He has said before that he was having difficulty doing new stuff that wasn't a weaker version of past glories and he didn't care that much about doing new albums anymore.

I'll be annoyed if the sequel never comes out because I thought this was a pretty solid album.

i'm quite sure they could come up with 8 to 9 good songs. maybe if he didn't think every record had to have 18 songs plus 4 alternate b-sides for japan he'd feel less pressure. 17 Seconds and Faith are perfectly good albums of a digestible length.

I recommend he freshens the band up, Mark E. Smith style, by firing Jason Cooper.

Jason hate, still? In 2017?

Boo.

Still sounds like a bad fit to my ears.

he is bad because who remembers his name? not me, certainly. he's been there forever and seems like a complete non-entity. maybe I'm just old.

I mean, that's just willful at this point.

Personally, I kind of wish Andy Anderson would rejoin the band but I know that will never happen.

Jeez, proof that anything will get romanticized, as long as it came before whatever the current situation.

... Andy drummed on "The Lovecats" and The Top. You can't seriously argue that there is a problem with the percussion in any of the music from that era of the band. (Personal conflict in spades, yes, which is why Andy Anderson back in The Cure will never happen, but that isn't what we are discussing here.)

Andy Anderson was (and probably still is) a far superior drummer than Jason Cooper. Problem is, The Cure like touring and Andy Anderson didn't deal with it very well. Having said that, Boris Williams couldn't have been any more perfect for the band and his were mighty shoes to fill. Jason Cooper still hasn't filled those shoes, IMO.

Jason is a bad drummer

I've been listening to a show a day on here cureforall.eklablog.com/audio-c24555404

It's pretty apparent when Porl and Boris leave.. they were way groovier with them in the band

ok he's not bad but the guy has no voice at all

Jason's style works much better on bash-into-the-wall stuff like "It's Over" IMO

Andy was great during his time. But, honestly, we're romanticizing a period of just over a year. Whereas, Jason has been doing over twenty years of great contributions to the group. And we're just going to quickly shine all that good work off because somebody came before him.

JFC, to hear some of people tell it, Jason can't even keep time.

In the mean time, Jason has played through the band's most diverse live era. Did we just forget about the Trilogy film? Or, are we pretending that wasn't totally well-received?

Boris played on: Head on the Door, Kiss Me, Disintegration, and Wish. Great era, to be completely sure. But hardly that diverse.

Just look at the diversity of Jason's era: Wild Mood Swings, Bloodflowers, self-titled, and 4:13 Dream. Not to mention, he played on the Swing Tour and the Dream Tour; two of the band's most well-received tours.

No, it's because Andy Anderson was a superior drummer, not to mention more suitable as a drummer. If The Cure ever have a drummer after Cooper, I'll still think he was a bad fit.

Seriously. Jason is not a bad drummer, just one without character. And I recognize it's a coincidence, but it does not help him that the albums he's played on are also more or less the band's worst albums.

Boris played on: Head on the Door, Kiss Me, Disintegration, and Wish. Great era, to be completely sure. But hardly that diverse.

Hardly that diverse? I mean, they're all consistently good, I'll give you that, but Head and KM3 are all over the place, and the drum parts on all four albums alone are really, really creative and memorable.

I had no idea that Austin was Jason Cooper's mom.

I'm not one to really pick up on drumming in music so can't really judge on that front. However, and I'm just guessing, I doubt Jason has much of a rapport with Robert or Simon so I tend to see him as part of what went wrong with this band.

Eh, I don't think you get to stay in a band for 20 years if you don't have any musical rapport with the guitarist who runs it or his bassist best friend.

For sure. Also worth remembering that during the band's pop/peak years, head on the door through wish, the other guys in the band, from Boris to Porl to Simon, were all bringing musical ideas. there is no Cure without Robert, but the Cure at its best was more collaborative than people give the other guys credit for.

I mean, let's just look at Wild Mood Swings: it's got 'Gone!', 'The 13th', and 'Jupiter Crash.' All that's covered in just those three songs is pretty diverse.

I personally love Boris' contributions to the band, but I'm really getting tired of people thinking you can't like both eras equally. It's like, you have to love one and hate the other. Besides being unfair, it's just a really immature way to view things.

And I'm still waiting for someone to try and tell me that the Swing Tour and/or the Dream tour were crap. You won't, because it's not true.

Totally as an aside: don't get it twisted, Simon has contributed just as many musical ideas to the band as Robert has. The foundation of the group is Robert and Simon, and that's been the case since 1984.

(((((I am very much enjoying how ridiculously geeky this thread got))))

people thinking you can't like both eras equally.

Who in the world thinks both eras are equal?

Jason was unfortunate enough to join the band at a point where they really needed to prove to everyone they could still cut it after pivotal line-up changes and during a very different musical climate to the one in which Wish, and the band ended up delivering one of their worst records. However, as much as I like some of the material on the post-Wish records, he just doesn't have the feel or character that Lol, Anderson or Williams brought - as people have said.

Simon has indeed contributed many ideas, as have Porl, Roger, Lol, Boris etc. - although unsure how he contributed 'em in 1984 when he wasn't in the band.

*the one in which they released Wish

I wouldn't go so far as to say pre- and post-WMS Cure are "equal" but post-WMS Cure is still great and I love most of it as much as I love pre-WMS Cure.

My favorite Cure album will always be Pornography; this doesn't mean that I think they've gone downhill since then.

I get that. But WMS and beyond to my ears have not much really going for them beyond being by The Cure, which I suppose is better than no Cure, but I literally never want to listen to them. As I'm sure we've all talked about before, I think many would also prefer a remastered and expanded Wish at this point over a new Cure album. I think that says a lot.

Screw the albums Jason plays on - just listening to the old songs (esp stuff from Porn that have insane drumming) hearing Boris play those songs you're like "GODDAAMN!" hearing Jason play them you're like "ok"

Jason was better than Boris on "100 Years" on the tours I saw.

not arguing with you but if you want to a/b them

boris 1992: https://youtu.be/uRm3qJ7UwMs?t=2458

jason 2000: https://youtu.be/JMLMT0G2MS0?t=5183

boris is actually playing the whole thing himself doing double bass dave lombardo shit... jason is playing to a drum machine and adding a bit of hi hat and not much else...

i mean i will always see them live no matter what lol

A couple of things:

1) I never said Boris and Jason eras were equal. I said that people behave like you're not allowed to like both equally.

2) Simon's time in the Cure runs as follows: 79-spring 82, late 84-early 95, mid 96-present. Don't fuck up Simon's contributions.

simon was out of the cure for a year between 95 and 96?

COGASM / Wrong Number were done while Simon was out too, and I think he quit another brief time this century.

I had no idea that Austin was Jason Cooper's mom.

― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, August 2, 2017 7:11 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LOL!