Beyonce in 2016 - 'Formation' and Lemonade

There are some really gloopy cadences on Sandcastles, it doesn't do it for me at all, which considering its the centrepiece of the album is a bit of a problem. A ballad on the level of the last album would have worked incredibly there but that song and the Blake coda just feel so out of place,musically if not thematically.

i think bey's takes on traditional balladry (even the dreaded 'adult contemporary' kind, i.e. when she sang diane warren on 4) are quite beautiful and "sandcastles" is no exception. "pray you catch me" is a gorgeous, haunting intro too.

It's probably wrongheaded, but perversely I do think that starring in Dreamgirls was something of a turning point for Beyonce in terms of her thinking about balladry, and how to really perform ballads.

Especially the final stretch of the film when Beyonce's character morphs from a hit machine to a singer with agency (whose agency as a singer has been dismissed or ignored). This is the subject matter of "Listen" obv, but "Irreplaceable" (albeit only vaguely related to balladry) is the real evidence of the shift in Beyonce's own music: the first song, I think, in Beyonce's catalogue that feels elevated out of the realm of the generic by Beyonce's sense of character and the sheer investment of her delivery (before then, it seems to me that Beyonce could only fashion greatness out of songs that still would have been pretty ace in someone else's hands).

(Similarly I Am..., for all that it's a bit glutinous, on a performance level is actually a lot better than it has any right to be)

Since 4 certainly, it's been clear that Beyonce is increasingly focused on delivery, and thinking about how to create maximum identification and emotional effect without necessarily just going for big notes (though she does that too). It makes her ballads so much more fascinating, because there's an increasing sense of risk and also presence in her performances.

sandcastles is like _just_ the really good bridge of a song, with nothing else, in terms of how like the topline works.

When a video starts with the pop star in front of a red velvet curtain (as this one does), I always assume that signifies "oh this is a play and what's happening isn't real" (cf. "Like A Prayer").

it's weird, the initial shock of this record really captivated me but now I think about 30 percent of it doesn't work for me? i really love "love drought" and "all night," especially the latter, for some reason the "spottieottiedopalicious" horns make me cry; something about its texture and structure seem really connected to the s/t as well, it sounds so open and generous. i'm not really wild about "6 inch" because it seems in search of something it never actually finds, and "freedom" feels kinda inflexible in a bad way. every time I try to remember what "sandcastles" sounds like I remember the dawn richard song instead

the film is really awesome though

I love how the Hold Up chorus is like stageblocking an altercation

Sorry is not a song I remember offhand yet but the plethora of vocal moments on it make it such a delight to listen to

"all night," especially the latter, for some reason the "spottieottiedopalicious" horns make me cry; something about its texture and structure seem really connected to the s/t as well, it sounds so open and generous.

with you on this. Not just the alubm's best hook, but it melds so well with the rest of the track.

Reporting from the trenches, on first run-through my 11-yr-old son's favorites (besides "Formation," which he already loved) are "Freedom" and "All Night." (Though he would say anything with Kendrick on it was his favorite.)

Also he says everyone in 5th grade is talking about the album and the videos, so even if she's not getting airplay she's getting through.

Freedom and 6 Inch are the only ones I flat out dislike on this. All Night is the best and then I also love Sorry and Hold Up.

yeah idk about the rest of this yet but "all night" is pretty amazing.

not really getting the "all night" love at all, it's probably my least favourite song here that i actually like. (the album's narrative arc ends at "sandcastles" for me)

in general i feel like the first half of this is unquestionably better than the second half

see I don't get the "Sandcastles" love at all.

i like it and think it's a great vocal performance but it is also not top-tier for me. the top tier is the "hold up" through "daddy lessons" run; every moment in every song is like whoa

i've no idea why ppl don't seem into "6 inch", it's high-end trip-hop like they used to make and her LOWER RANGE >>>>>>

also slightly amazed that no one else seems to react to "forward" like BURN IT WITH FIRE

eh it's too short to be a bother. I actually thought it was just the coda to Sandcastles until I looked at the track listing.

yeah i don't think i've picked it out as a distinct track in my 2-3 listens so far

6 Inch is a bore. Not sure what exactly it does on the album outside of Weeknd maybe getting her a pass at radio?

Bad album, good movie

i think all night is my favorite here

i like the way her voice slides into the upper register in the chorus.

everyone in 5th grade is talking about the album and the videos

<3

oh my god "All Night" is transcendent <3

yeah i'm with brad, "all night" is the one that has made me cry

if i were to make any edits to this album i'd put "formation" just in front of "freedom" and behind "forward" ("forward" could probably be excised i guess but i don't find it overly objectionable) because "all night" has this beautiful starry-eyed air of finality to it. but i'm corny so

Daddy Lessons is amazing and highlights that if contemporary country artists want to attract my attention, they should co-opt some gospel and Nee Orleans jazz rather than boring 80s rock

Logged in for the first time in ages, because this is the only place I could think of to ask this question. Hey everyone.

How on earth is this being billed as a "feminist" work? Like, really? She spends the hour defining herself in terms of her husband.

It seems that everyone is saying that she put Jay on blast, but from what I can see the story is that he got to cheat on her and she kicked and screamed a bit and then took him back. He must be laughing all the way to the bank.

I'm about as far removed from black american culture as can be, so I can't speak to the racial aspects of the work, but purely from a feminist angle I don't see how this work is in any way empowering to women. Do other people not see this? Is the visual of Beyonce smashing things with a bat so potent that the fundamental message of the album goes ignored??

oh great

Prepared to be totally shot down. Just confused, and probably stupid.

She spends the hour defining herself in terms of her husband.

Well, that's a way of interpreting it I suppose.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81QCTJzws4L._SY606_.jpg

Is the visual of Beyonce smashing things with a bat so potent that the fundamental message of the album goes ignored??

you don't seem to have a solid idea of what you think the "fundamental message" of the album is. i assume that's why you've come in here to ask these questions?

trying to evaluate the work, or anything, from a 'purely' feminist lens that entirely does away with considering racial politics is nonsensical. that doesn't mean it's not commonly attempted: google the words "beyonce not feminist" and you'll find pieces upon pieces upon pieces from the last maybe 5 years all grappling with the same clumsy questions that have sprung to your mind, resolved with answers that are sloppy that you might nevertheless find satisfying

https://twitter.com/gillespeterson/status/725200711483543552

lol

you don't seem to have a solid idea of what you think the "fundamental message" of the album is.

That's true, I've only listened through a couple of times.

trying to evaluate the work, or anything, from a 'purely' feminist lens that entirely does away with considering racial politics is nonsensical.

Yes, this is a good point. I readily admit my ignorance here.

google the words "beyonce not feminist" and you'll find pieces upon pieces upon pieces from the last maybe 5 years all grappling with the same clumsy questions that have sprung to your mind, resolved with answers that are sloppy that you might nevertheless find satisfying

Do you mean that you regard the general argument that Beyonce is not a feminist (not one with which I'm familiar) unconvincing? Or just that nobody has done a good job of making the argument? I don't see much value in reading flawed arguments, and certainly not to convince myself of something. Are there any pieces on this topic that you rate?

Not trying to pick a fight, or trash Beyonce or the album (I like a lot of it). I am sincerely confused. The video is full of messages and images about empowering black women, but—to me, at least—the lyrics seem overly concerned with men; their feelings, thoughts, motivations, strengths, and weaknesses.

Well, even from a non-black perspective like mine the big issue - and this has always been a big issue with Beyoncé - is simply who gets to tell the story, who gets to define what happened, who you are, how it was/is experienced, what the consequences are not only for her but for them as a couple, and these issues very readily tie in with the whole #BLM movement's insistence on, well, the basic humanity of the people that all this shit happens to, you know? As for power relations between the sexes... just try to imagine what Jay's next album will sound like (if it ever happens) and how his persona and narrative will be changed by this album and you'll hopefully catch my drift. What can he rap about now? Hardly his trophy wife!

At the very least performing 99 Problems should be very awkward for him from now on.

I feel like the album's narrative, if there is one, is about the way in which the fact of a partner's adultery throws into sharp relief the fact (the challenge, the opportunity, the obstacle) of needing to actively choose to invest in and continue with it each day. The decision to take Jay-Z back by the end of the album is lent drama because it is presented as a very deliberate decision that, for long stretches of the album, was close to being decided the other way. The album becomes a dramatisation and celebration of that choice, the fact of choosing, the fact of being able to choose.

Whether you agree with it or not, Beyonce frames her decision to stay with her partner as a decision coming from a place of strength i.e. having beaten him to the ground ("Hold Up" through "Sorry") she stands over him with her sword, wavering ("Six Inch" through "Sandcastles") but instead of running him through she decides to stretch out her hand and help him stand up again ("All Night").

The film, at least, appears to posit that narrative within a broader thematic context: Beyonce's struggle to maintain her relationship and family as metonymic of the black woman's struggles within US society. But those struggles are still routed through the maintenance of family, albeit at a more serious level than Beyonce's own struggle: e.g. the stills in the film of grieving mothers holding photos of their dead sons are obviously political, but they're also clearly not some narrow assertion of female emancipation from patriarchy.

One of the messages I take from the film in particular is that public displays of grief and anger can be a political act, and one of the ways in which that women, black people, and black women most of all (see Malcolm X quote) are marginalised is that their grief and anger are dismissed, silenced, explained away etc. This can be true vis a vis husbands, employers, "society at large" and hence the reversal of this marginalisation doesn't always or necessarily pull in the same direction.

You may feel that Beyonce connecting her struggle with the struggle of the mothers of African American boys killed by police is a wildly self-aggrandising bridge too far, though I tend to think one of the messages of the film (albeit more implicit than some of the other messages) is that the story of self-empowerment the album describes is a small thing compared to the challenges it exists in relation to and with.

whoa andrew nf came up with the *exact same argument* as azealia banks

Thanks, Tim! That's exactly the kind of thoughtful, enlightening comment I came here for.

At the very least performing 99 Problems should be very awkward for him from now on.

Indeed... I'm very curious to see how the Jay-Z persona is affected by this.

whoa andrew nf came up with the *exact same argument* as azealia banks

Not sure how to take this! haha

One thing that occurred to me was that each of the songs on this album could conceivably be a response to the question "what does singing the blues sound like in 2016?"

something Dori@n wrote on FB otm:

I used to think Kanye was the master of marshalling a diverse team of collaborators into a cohesive album where everyone brought their A game but with Lemonade that honour passes to Beyonce. Every story leaking out from contributors reveals how cleverly she pieced it all together and made every song her own. It's a masterclass in a style of songwriting that too often creates bloodless mishmashes. She's the centre of a whirlpool of talent. I don't think there any bad songs here and there are a fistful of phenomenal ones. This is how to do it right.

How on earth is this being billed as a "feminist" work? Like, really? She spends the hour defining herself in terms of her husband.

everything beyonce does is feminist. there is no point in arguing about this.

when jay-z says 'thats my bitch' about beyonce, this also does not diminish beyonce's feminist credentials.

RELATED, this article about why endlessly debating whether individual choices are "feminist" or not is pointless

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/25/can-you-be-a-feminist-empowering-dicourse-debate

whether beyoncé leaves, or does not leave, a cheating partner who may be jay-z or a fictional character or a blend of both, isn't a decision that should be assessed in reductive "is this feminist y/n" terms. but if you can't see how the album as a whole pushes back against the structural misogyny and racism that black women specifically face, in part by telling a story that strikes a chord with them but also in terms of the visual and lyrical imagery she employs, you're really wilfully blind

and yeah if TLOP was impressive on collagist terms how much more so is lemonade, which brings together so many disparate things and melds them together so seamlessly.

im not a beyonce stan but from following lots of other contradictory artists (and what can be more contradictory/conflicted than trying to be a feminist and uphold the contract of a marriage), contradiction is always good fodder for any musician. the TLOP comparison makes me increasingly interested to hear this album.

purely from a feminist angle I don't see how this work is in any way empowering to women

said the man who decided that this work written and performed by a woman is not empowering to women lol.

trying to imagine a feminism that just ignores men i dunno it sounds like missing the point? completely? yeah there are some forms of that i'm sure but from what i have read and seen feminism is a look at, you know, the reality that we actually live in, including men, marriage, etc., looking at that through a woman's perspective rather than the traditional male's.

like if feminists are not suppose to concern themselves w the male realm then..... what? that doesn't make any sense, it's an unrealistic demand.

I haven't heard a lovelier piece of music all year than Beyoncé's falsetto complementing those Outkast horns on "All Night."