Beyonce in 2016 - 'Formation' and Lemonade

Are there any drawbacks to a big tent approach to collaboration and credit when nobody is going to seriously doubt this is Beyonce's vision?

bey should do a version of pirate jenny

Just to be clear

I said that I noticed that there were a list of white co-writers on this record

(Was delighted to hear that I unconditionally loved the contributions of both James Blake and Jack White)

Noticed that the people with whom I was watching the video were trying to piece together all the credits, hear those white voices

And then very few white voices were heard!

I was delighted in the aftergoogle to see that many of these white co-writers were actually just gestures, words, moments, instead of features

Laughed at the dichotomy between Animal Collective writing a song, (which had the same meat as one of the most famous house songs of all time, and not giving the author of that song credit (Frankie Knuckles Jamie Principle)), and Beyonce’s staff incorporating a single line from that song and giving the band credit

Laughed with my friends that it was kind of a reversal of appropriation (“I’ll pay you for accidentally biting a couple words but fuck if anybody’s gonna hear your garbage music on my track”)

Laughed with my friends that a lot of people with indie-interests might approach those tracks expecting a substantial collaboration, and smirked at their imagined displeasure

Did not theorize that Bey or anybody else did it intentionally
Simply took delight in this small fact

Did not take any delight in the conversation that followed where the lack of featured female black performers who-were-not-Beyonce was brought up as a glaring misstep, "this album tries to subvert the status quo while simultaneously upholding the status quo" said my critical friend, was told also by her that bell hooks had called Bey a terrorist (I had read things she'd said against her but didn't know "terrorist" was used), anyway that conversation was more challenging than pleasant

This needs context:

hooks and the gang were discussing Beyoncé's recent Time magazine cover; hooks said the singer probably didn't have much agency in choosing her outfit or the cover's pose. Mock disagreed and told a story about how the introduction of Beyoncé through Destiny's Child was very influential for her as a girl because, amid MTV's TRL and white pop stars like Britney Spears, these four black girls from Houston were the contemporary Supremes. Here was someone she could identify with, said Mock, adding that she drew strength from Beyoncé's "Partition" as she was finishing her book Redefining Realness about her sexuality and sex work.

But hooks wasn't impressed. She responded to Mock saying, "Then you are saying, from my deconstructive point of view, that she is colluding in the construction of herself as a slave." hooks said that she sees a "part" of Beyoncé as "a terrorist especially in terms of the impact on young girls." She went onto explain that "the major assault on feminism in our society has come from visual media and from television and videos." To continue her point, and by Beyoncé ascribing to the dominant standard of beauty in photos like the one of her on Time, she is part of the problem of women being encouraged to uphold impossible beauty standards.

Because others are throwing around the whole terrorist thing for different reasons

Anyway, sandcastles is such a grower.

I have never heard anything from Beyonce since "Crazy in Love." Should I start with this or 4 or the self-titled or something else?

I bet Jay Z calls her a terrorist too.

how very typical that the original koenig version of "Hold Up" (or at least chorus) was about god.

― Tim F, Monday, April 25, 2016 4:05 PM (7 hours ago)

even with the lyric as "man above you" in bey's version i at first assumed it was reference to god/deities and found it rather shocking to hear from her, but then the more literal interpretation came to mind on subsequent listens

Anyway, sandcastles is such a grower.

― ive seen enough Good Wife episodes (s.clover), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 05:36 (1 hour ago) Permalink

literally cannot deal with people dissing this as some kind of adult contemporary ballad. The bit where she breaks down in the second verse is just O_O

it's sort of like what rihanna was aiming for, and fell so short of, on "higher"

the GOD IS GOD AND I AM NOT black screen flashing up in the film was the funniest moment

There are some really gloopy cadences on Sandcastles, it doesn't do it for me at all, which considering its the centrepiece of the album is a bit of a problem. A ballad on the level of the last album would have worked incredibly there but that song and the Blake coda just feel so out of place,musically if not thematically.

i think bey's takes on traditional balladry (even the dreaded 'adult contemporary' kind, i.e. when she sang diane warren on 4) are quite beautiful and "sandcastles" is no exception. "pray you catch me" is a gorgeous, haunting intro too.

It's probably wrongheaded, but perversely I do think that starring in Dreamgirls was something of a turning point for Beyonce in terms of her thinking about balladry, and how to really perform ballads.

Especially the final stretch of the film when Beyonce's character morphs from a hit machine to a singer with agency (whose agency as a singer has been dismissed or ignored). This is the subject matter of "Listen" obv, but "Irreplaceable" (albeit only vaguely related to balladry) is the real evidence of the shift in Beyonce's own music: the first song, I think, in Beyonce's catalogue that feels elevated out of the realm of the generic by Beyonce's sense of character and the sheer investment of her delivery (before then, it seems to me that Beyonce could only fashion greatness out of songs that still would have been pretty ace in someone else's hands).

(Similarly I Am..., for all that it's a bit glutinous, on a performance level is actually a lot better than it has any right to be)

Since 4 certainly, it's been clear that Beyonce is increasingly focused on delivery, and thinking about how to create maximum identification and emotional effect without necessarily just going for big notes (though she does that too). It makes her ballads so much more fascinating, because there's an increasing sense of risk and also presence in her performances.

sandcastles is like _just_ the really good bridge of a song, with nothing else, in terms of how like the topline works.

When a video starts with the pop star in front of a red velvet curtain (as this one does), I always assume that signifies "oh this is a play and what's happening isn't real" (cf. "Like A Prayer").

it's weird, the initial shock of this record really captivated me but now I think about 30 percent of it doesn't work for me? i really love "love drought" and "all night," especially the latter, for some reason the "spottieottiedopalicious" horns make me cry; something about its texture and structure seem really connected to the s/t as well, it sounds so open and generous. i'm not really wild about "6 inch" because it seems in search of something it never actually finds, and "freedom" feels kinda inflexible in a bad way. every time I try to remember what "sandcastles" sounds like I remember the dawn richard song instead

the film is really awesome though

I love how the Hold Up chorus is like stageblocking an altercation

Sorry is not a song I remember offhand yet but the plethora of vocal moments on it make it such a delight to listen to

"all night," especially the latter, for some reason the "spottieottiedopalicious" horns make me cry; something about its texture and structure seem really connected to the s/t as well, it sounds so open and generous.

with you on this. Not just the alubm's best hook, but it melds so well with the rest of the track.

Reporting from the trenches, on first run-through my 11-yr-old son's favorites (besides "Formation," which he already loved) are "Freedom" and "All Night." (Though he would say anything with Kendrick on it was his favorite.)

Also he says everyone in 5th grade is talking about the album and the videos, so even if she's not getting airplay she's getting through.

Freedom and 6 Inch are the only ones I flat out dislike on this. All Night is the best and then I also love Sorry and Hold Up.

yeah idk about the rest of this yet but "all night" is pretty amazing.

not really getting the "all night" love at all, it's probably my least favourite song here that i actually like. (the album's narrative arc ends at "sandcastles" for me)

in general i feel like the first half of this is unquestionably better than the second half

see I don't get the "Sandcastles" love at all.

i like it and think it's a great vocal performance but it is also not top-tier for me. the top tier is the "hold up" through "daddy lessons" run; every moment in every song is like whoa

i've no idea why ppl don't seem into "6 inch", it's high-end trip-hop like they used to make and her LOWER RANGE >>>>>>

also slightly amazed that no one else seems to react to "forward" like BURN IT WITH FIRE

eh it's too short to be a bother. I actually thought it was just the coda to Sandcastles until I looked at the track listing.

yeah i don't think i've picked it out as a distinct track in my 2-3 listens so far

6 Inch is a bore. Not sure what exactly it does on the album outside of Weeknd maybe getting her a pass at radio?

Bad album, good movie

i think all night is my favorite here

i like the way her voice slides into the upper register in the chorus.

everyone in 5th grade is talking about the album and the videos

<3

oh my god "All Night" is transcendent <3

yeah i'm with brad, "all night" is the one that has made me cry

if i were to make any edits to this album i'd put "formation" just in front of "freedom" and behind "forward" ("forward" could probably be excised i guess but i don't find it overly objectionable) because "all night" has this beautiful starry-eyed air of finality to it. but i'm corny so

Daddy Lessons is amazing and highlights that if contemporary country artists want to attract my attention, they should co-opt some gospel and Nee Orleans jazz rather than boring 80s rock

Logged in for the first time in ages, because this is the only place I could think of to ask this question. Hey everyone.

How on earth is this being billed as a "feminist" work? Like, really? She spends the hour defining herself in terms of her husband.

It seems that everyone is saying that she put Jay on blast, but from what I can see the story is that he got to cheat on her and she kicked and screamed a bit and then took him back. He must be laughing all the way to the bank.

I'm about as far removed from black american culture as can be, so I can't speak to the racial aspects of the work, but purely from a feminist angle I don't see how this work is in any way empowering to women. Do other people not see this? Is the visual of Beyonce smashing things with a bat so potent that the fundamental message of the album goes ignored??

oh great

Prepared to be totally shot down. Just confused, and probably stupid.

She spends the hour defining herself in terms of her husband.

Well, that's a way of interpreting it I suppose.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81QCTJzws4L._SY606_.jpg

Is the visual of Beyonce smashing things with a bat so potent that the fundamental message of the album goes ignored??

you don't seem to have a solid idea of what you think the "fundamental message" of the album is. i assume that's why you've come in here to ask these questions?

trying to evaluate the work, or anything, from a 'purely' feminist lens that entirely does away with considering racial politics is nonsensical. that doesn't mean it's not commonly attempted: google the words "beyonce not feminist" and you'll find pieces upon pieces upon pieces from the last maybe 5 years all grappling with the same clumsy questions that have sprung to your mind, resolved with answers that are sloppy that you might nevertheless find satisfying

https://twitter.com/gillespeterson/status/725200711483543552

lol

you don't seem to have a solid idea of what you think the "fundamental message" of the album is.

That's true, I've only listened through a couple of times.

trying to evaluate the work, or anything, from a 'purely' feminist lens that entirely does away with considering racial politics is nonsensical.

Yes, this is a good point. I readily admit my ignorance here.

google the words "beyonce not feminist" and you'll find pieces upon pieces upon pieces from the last maybe 5 years all grappling with the same clumsy questions that have sprung to your mind, resolved with answers that are sloppy that you might nevertheless find satisfying

Do you mean that you regard the general argument that Beyonce is not a feminist (not one with which I'm familiar) unconvincing? Or just that nobody has done a good job of making the argument? I don't see much value in reading flawed arguments, and certainly not to convince myself of something. Are there any pieces on this topic that you rate?

Not trying to pick a fight, or trash Beyonce or the album (I like a lot of it). I am sincerely confused. The video is full of messages and images about empowering black women, but—to me, at least—the lyrics seem overly concerned with men; their feelings, thoughts, motivations, strengths, and weaknesses.

Well, even from a non-black perspective like mine the big issue - and this has always been a big issue with Beyoncé - is simply who gets to tell the story, who gets to define what happened, who you are, how it was/is experienced, what the consequences are not only for her but for them as a couple, and these issues very readily tie in with the whole #BLM movement's insistence on, well, the basic humanity of the people that all this shit happens to, you know? As for power relations between the sexes... just try to imagine what Jay's next album will sound like (if it ever happens) and how his persona and narrative will be changed by this album and you'll hopefully catch my drift. What can he rap about now? Hardly his trophy wife!