Beyonce in 2016 - 'Formation' and Lemonade

is there any way to watch the film (or whatever it is) w/o having a HBO subscription?

As an aside, it's interesting to observe that while Jay-Z's response to moving in arty circles is just to hamfistedly reference it in lyrics, Beyonce goes away and makes what is essentially a video installation for a gallery of digital media).

this just seems symptomatic of jay-z being totally out of inspiration and ideas, and beyonce... having plenty of inspiration and ideas.

Yeah that was my point.

i'm not hearing where the quality of songcraft supposedly dips..."pray you catch me" is more of a mood intro than a song, "forward" is trash that doesn't even count as a beyoncé song and i've deleted it already but everything else is either super-immediate or if it's not, has really engrossing details/moments that make it a compelling listen even if i'm not belting out the hooks yet

strictly autobiographical obsession is v boring in this case. i know she's underlining it for us (must be the influence of hanging out with taylor swift) but every single bit of speculation i've read about her marriage reveals some p depressing things about how ppl seem to think a) relationships b) creating art actually work

― cher guevara (lex pretend), Monday, April 25, 2016 8:48 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd love to hear you expand on this, lex. Especially the part about "how art works", which, I think, is partly what's bothering me about the reception of this thing.

Anyway, I finally watched the film and feel like it blew the songs up into the dimensions that the album needs in order for it to work, more or less. However, parts of this is down to the film using fragments of the songs instead of full versions - i.e. I prefer Freedom without the Kendrick verse for some reason - and also the spoken word thing which worked better than I had imagined it would.

All Night felt way more of a reconciliation than I had thought it would though, thanks to the loving imagery of Jay and Blue Ivy, and that kind of threw me off. After seeing the film this weirdly feels more like a love letter to Jay (and, even more weirdly, patriarchy in general) than an attempt to break free.

strictly autobiographical obsession is v boring in this case. i know she's underlining it for us (must be the influence of hanging out with taylor swift) but every single bit of speculation i've read about her marriage reveals some p depressing things about how ppl seem to think a) relationships b) creating art actually work

yeah this. Most artists record stuff because it sounds cool, not because it's intrinsically meaningful.

Beyoncé seems to be very into MEANING though.

geez I've already seen a few people on FB call this her Blood on the Tracks or Shoot Out the Lights! Apart from not knowing a thing about Beyonce-Jay (and who cares anyway), Lemonade doesn't work like those two albums; it's a convenient way to elide the politics and concentrate on autobiography.

Not sure if politics and autobiography can be detached from each other in this particular instance but it's an interesting thought and I'd love to hear what you mean by it in more detail.

'Great songs' are overrated. This album sounds broken, confused, searching, everchanging. It's not a grand statement, it's art. It's not MEANING, or even #MEANING, it's meanings.

The lack of "great songs" means the focus is moved from the songs to the person singing them. Hence to "meaning".
That being said, the songs are not bad. I quite like a few of them.

my favorite 'music video' moment in the film is toward the end in "hold up". so replete is the history of the music video with shots of the performer (esp. if they're women) looking right into the camera that it really struck me to actually feel "oh shit, she's actually looking ~at me~" as she approached with the bat ready to strike.

album appears to be available to buy on itunes and other digital retail outlets now btw. the individual tracks can be purchased a la carte, even, which was not the case at first for self-titled. i guess the tidal exclusive is just for streaming?

It's not on Amazon.

digital is now for sale on Amazon---I just checked---and maybe for streaming if you sign up for Prime (unless it's just a vague ruse to get you to sign up, period; didn't read the mention that closely, but not in the way they might prefer me to be careless). Anyway CD/DVD out May 6 (contents of DVD listed as "short film," so not the whole video gallery, or is that short?) Somebody on Sunday All Things Considered suggested that theme of album could be read as referencing marriage and/or fraught relationship with her father and/or institutionalized patriarchy/gender presets (though I inferred last phrase) Haven't listened yet, but trying not to read too much about it first (hard, but I'm trying).

I've got Prime and it's not available for streaming for me

A subtle cool thing about this record imo is the lip-service crediting of so many white indie-mainstays. Took a line here, a word there, then she gives credit to Ezra, YYYs, AnCo, Father John Misty for their barely-there contributions, it's beautiful tokenizing. It's genius. Animal Collective took Frankie Knuckles' masterpiece-track (a soundtrack for safe spaces for the queer and not-white and poor) and turned it into a song glorifying heteronormative privileged life. Beyonce and co. took it back by stealing two words. And giving credit.

handing someone a paycheck for basically no work is a strange form of justice in that case

i would be willing to buy that if she didn't duet with james blake and have two tracks primarily produced by diplo (and if she didn't also throw soulja boy a "don't sue me" writing credit)

not sure an arpeggio counts as a heinous theft of the entire song "your love".

can't believe i connected vastly more with a couple of jack white & diplo collabs than with anything on the pj harvey album.

if only, for every time someone types the words "jack white" into a CMS, they were forced by the spirits of beyonce and tim berners-lee to also embed a wynter gordon video

oh shit, hi spirits of beyonce and tim berners-lee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT-ulCJxNfo

Haven't seen anything yet that clarifies Ezra's producer credit. Song does have a bit of a VW flavor, but could just as easily be Diplo's lite-Caribbean vibe.

"A subtle cool thing about this record imo is the lip-service crediting of so many white indie-mainstays. Took a line here, a word there, then she gives credit to Ezra, YYYs, AnCo, Father John Misty for their barely-there contributions, it's beautiful tokenizing. It's genius. Animal Collective took Frankie Knuckles' masterpiece-track (a soundtrack for safe spaces for the queer and not-white and poor) and turned it into a song glorifying heteronormative privileged life. Beyonce and co. took it back by stealing two words. And giving credit."

it might be reclaiming that particular sample, idk, ive not heard the record yet, but surely a truer form of revenge would simply be NOT using or crediting said white artists and just crediting/using a load of more obscure black artists (or frankie knuckles, rather than AC)? to me it just seems like a bit of a shrewd cred exercise. she knows white/indie critics will get very excited about seeing all those names on there, even if they arent doing too much.

or, less circumspect: it really does grate to see people, presented with an album by a black woman about black womanhood, go on and on and on AND ON AND ON AND ON about the white dudes featured or quasi-featured on it, especially when they aren't even the only people there

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Haven't seen anything yet that clarifies Ezra's producer credit. Song does have a bit of a VW flavor, but could just as easily be Diplo's lite-Caribbean vibe.

― A nationally known air show announcer/personality (tipsy mothra), Monday, April 25, 2016 11:38 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its almost as if guessing at who contributed what on a song w/ eightyleven contributers is a fools game?

A subtle cool thing about this record imo is the lip-service crediting of so many white indie-mainstays. Took a line here, a word there, then she gives credit to Ezra, YYYs, AnCo, Father John Misty for their barely-there contributions, it's beautiful tokenizing. It's genius. Animal Collective took Frankie Knuckles' masterpiece-track (a soundtrack for safe spaces for the queer and not-white and poor) and turned it into a song glorifying heteronormative privileged life. Beyonce and co. took it back by stealing two words. And giving credit.

― fgti, Monday, April 25, 2016 11:01 AM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is like watching social justice become an online video game

definitely, it is still beyonces show, but people cant be totally blamed for taking the bait. father john misty, james blake, etc etc, have all obv been enlisted for a reason. 'its her indie album!'

IMO the cleverness is not stealing back an old chicago house sample or whatever, but getting attention by enlisting unexpected collaborators who arent actually that important in the wider scheme of the album (i think).

anyway, its beyonce. apart from a certain brand of critic, the wider populus are not going to look at it as anything but a beyonce record. beyonce is doing blake, misty, etc etc a huge favour ultimately, her being the megastar, and shes getting a bit of indie cred in return.

xpost

A subtle cool thing about this record imo is the lip-service crediting of so many white indie-mainstays. Took a line here, a word there, then she gives credit to Ezra, YYYs, AnCo, Father John Misty for their barely-there contributions, it's beautiful tokenizing. It's genius. Animal Collective took Frankie Knuckles' masterpiece-track (a soundtrack for safe spaces for the queer and not-white and poor) and turned it into a song glorifying heteronormative privileged life. Beyonce and co. took it back by stealing two words. And giving credit.

― fgti, Monday, April 25, 2016 11:01 AM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is like watching social justice become an online video game

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, April 25, 2016 12:58 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and this post, I guess, would be the person spamming the report-to-admins button

is there such a thing as indie cred in 2016 and who'd want it? If anything, the queue of guests suggests they want her cred.

I'd say Rihanna was going for a bit of indie cred with Anti. This... I'm not sure about.

i'm not sure it's necessarily that deep. i assume beyoncé has a gigantic bank of songs at any given time that can undergo huge transformations long after the original writer(s) have left the building and the lengthy credits just reflect this. i'm not sure, taking all the collaborators into account, that there's much of a pattern in terms of who she's chosen to work with, apart from that absolutely no one would have turned her down. it's not even as if the indie witeboys who pop up here have much to do with each other aesthetically let alone wynter gordon, mnek, diplo or whoever inspired her to write a country song etc etc.

and this post, I guess, would be the person spamming the report-to-admins button

― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, April 25, 2016 12:05 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

??

are the guest artists/collaborators on this record affiliated with Tidal? (serious question)

xpost id say it (indie cred) is still there, yes. it seems naive to think that there isnt such a thing, almost like a denial of who holds the power at most music media institutions.

it's weird and depressing how lifelong R&B artists drawing any influence or inspiration from different sources supposedly dilutes the R&B element (instead of making R&B a richer and more varied genre) but any artist from outside the R&B world can put any little element of R&B into their music and suddenly they're a bold new style of R&B that's reinvigorating the genre. at least that's how the music media usually paints things.

boots is affiliated with roc nation which obv has tidal ties so...

are the guest artists/collaborators on this record affiliated with Tidal? (serious question)

i presumed that's why jack white popped up, no idea about the others

is there going to be anywhere legit (not tidal) to watch the film?

it seems naive to think that there isnt such a thing, almost like a denial of who holds the power at most music media institution

Pieces on Beyonce, Taylor Swift, etc, hold the power.

i was hoping that she hired a New Orleans brass band for the 'Daddy Lessons' intro, but looks like nope.

she knows white/indie critics will get very excited about seeing all those names on there, even if they arent doing too much.

Releasing albums out of the blue with no advance promos and little advance word don't suggest the actions of someone who gives a hoot about critics.

Actually this feels a bit like the album that a lot of pre-release publicity claimed she was making in 2011. I remember the undisguised disappointment and begrudging three-star reviews among sections of the press when they ended up with 4 and not Beyonce plus Sleigh Bells or whatever terrible idea was mooted.

I have no idea how Jack White cropped up on here, he's the one you'd expect to still have eyerolling contempt for a project like this.

Two degrees of separation:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/468162840-jason-aldean-jack-white-daft-punk-beyonce-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QckPVWQSXnG0AHGrmIlVbgopttk5GDJ7Gl9jmvsvDc%2BEEK%2BbtoTu%2BL1hpcqWbUqXww%3D%3D

??

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, April 25, 2016 1:12 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eagerly piping up to say "look! this guy did something wrong!"

"help social justice is griefing me" etc

I guess it's more effective for Beyoncé to just drop an album without any buildup because it forces people to scramble to hear it immediately. It has to be a big cultural moment that people can't afford to miss out on. I mean, it doesn't have to be, obviously, but it reinforces her brand, gives her fans footing over music critics, encourages people to subscribe to Tidal, etc.

Louis CK said a similar thing on WTF last week (I know this is a quintessential mid-2010s post) -- talking about Horace & Pete, he described really wanting people to just stumble onto this thing, not knowing what it would be, with no billboards, stories, etc., in advance. It's just putting the publicity behind the work instead of ahead of it.