shifts in popular opinion you have noticed

hahaha

lol scott

you realize that's going to make him want to learn it extra bad

Even back in the metal 80s most people were like "What's the big deal with Clapton?"

But nothing will ever make me not want to blow up a radio playing Bob Seger, Supertramp or Styx.

I've been waiting 30 years for the critical reappraisal of Styx and I believe I'll see it before I die

lol i agree

was with my 12-year-old niece last weekend. pointed to the house on my mom's block where the hassles used to practice. said "billy joel used to play in that garage." "who?" "this famous pop star used to play in that garage right there!" "huh."

later on in barnes & noble: "that guy singing the song they're playing is the guy who used to play in that garage!!!" "oh...uh...that's cool."

Given the kind of stuff that's been revalued in recent years I still wonder why those first few Rundgren albums aren't hipper

billy joel is like a curse, you shouldn't burden your niece with that cruel baby boomer mojo

she should stay ignorant of billy joel, jgnorant and free

Got to love that Lennon zing though, "Best drummer in the world? He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles!"

― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 6:10 PM (2 hours ago)

What you often hear is “As John Lennon famously said, Ringo wasn’t even the best drummer in the Beatles.” My question to that is when did John Lennon say this exactly? Not only is he being quoted saying it but he’s being quoted “famously” saying it. And actually, when you really look at it, he never said it.

http://www.listener.co.nz/culture/books/mark-lewisohn-interview-the-long-version/

I don't have the personal historical context for this, only anecdotal, but besides the exceptions above (mostly major artists and/or closer to some other genre like enya) female singer-songwriter seem to be resistant to any sort of reappraisal across the board. reaches up as far as "the death of indie rock" -- regina spektor was ubiquitous in those types' canon and has now entirely disappeared

john lennon was genuinely an asshole though so it's the kind of thing he would say

yeah i think that's true katherine and it's a shame.

But nothing will ever make me not want to blow up a radio playing Bob Seger, Supertramp or Styx.

haha you can tell WmC is a few years older than me b/c when I was in like 10th grade Paradise Theater seemed like their post-New Jersey failure, and Pieces Of Eight was like "the cool old shit from the 70's"

I used to walk down the boardwalk in Virginia beach blasting "Renegade" on a tiny boombox

like, what do people think of sinead o'connor these days? i really like her early stuff but don't hear about it much from my peers or in coffee shops or whatever

styx is garbage

kids these days, smh

i don't think they should be reappraised and if they are, they shouldn't be. supertramp has more merit but the singer is one of the most annoying singers of all time so that's a mark against them.

See for me it was Paradise Theater that came out when I was like 10 years old and I was like holy shit this is what music can be, and by the time I was 12 I was all "I'm really into the album tracks on The Grand Illusion right now, you probably haven't heard them"

john lennon was genuinely an asshole though so it's the kind of thing he would say

― Treeship, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:46 PM (11 minutes ago)

yeah, why bother to get things right when you're writing about people you don't like

I don't have the personal historical context for this, only anecdotal, but besides the exceptions above (mostly major artists and/or closer to some other genre like enya) female singer-songwriter seem to be resistant to any sort of reappraisal across the board. reaches up as far as "the death of indie rock" -- regina spektor was ubiquitous in those types' canon and has now entirely disappeared

Maybe this is a '90s/'00s thing? Would need to consider some other examples. It seems to me 1970s ladies are constantly being reappraised to their benefit.. Dory Previn, Vashti Bunyan, Judee Sill et al.. (an exception might be Rickie Lee Jones, whose stock seems down). Fwiw I still hear Regina Spektor a lot, though I have no idea how she fits into the canon.

Aaliyah has been back for going on 8 years. But probably at the expense of all the other female r&b stars of the late 90s

It seems to me 1970s ladies are constantly being reappraised to their benefit.. Dory Previn, Vashti Bunyan, Judee Sill et al.

It seems to me 1970s ladies are constantly being reappraised to their benefit.. Dory Previn, Vashti Bunyan, Judee Sill et al.

Linda Perhacs, I think even Joni (who's never really been down) is respected even more now, the McGarrigle sisters, Sandy Denny, Linda Thompson, Jill St. John...cult-ish late 60s/70s folkier female singer songwriters have gotten some overdue props in recent years...though i guess this is all taking place in the cult world of reissue labels, Light in the Attic Records type stuff not like the mainstream convo

Phoebe Snow?

yeah, i tried to buy a linda perhacs lp at a store in philadelphia and it was like, super expensive

Worst musician after Zappa. Who, thankfully, most people have forgotten existed, I feel like he's more famous for his terrific 80s testimonials before congress now than he was for his terrible "dick joke in 15/8!" music.

― got a long list of ILXors (fgti), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:37 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. I don't think I've ever encountered a single musician under 50 (and not many over 50) who extolled Zappa's work. The handful of people I know who liked him in the '80s or '90s now either see him as an unfortunate but necessary stepping stone to much better shit, an embarrassment, or both.

This is really not my experience. Actually, I was talking to a young student yesterday who was telling me about a Zappa-influenced project she's working on. She gave a presentation on Jazz from Hell in my class last semester.

And then there's this

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexwinter/frank-zappa

Yeah I know a woman I used to work with who is maaaaybe 30 now, she LOVES Zappa, Ween et al.

On the first day of a different class, a freshman mentioned his longstanding love of Zappa as a motivating factor for taking a post-1945 music history class.

ween is better than zappa i think. they have a terrible name and lots of terrible songs but there are moments of inspired brilliance peppered throughout their catalog

i like ween but frank zappa annoys me a great deal

i watched a Ween live DVD, must've been recorded right before they broke up, but i was really suprised at how many women were in the audience, which is probably just dumb assumptions on my part but they seem like such a dude band...but i guess the biggest ween fan i know irl is a woman as well

i like ween but frank zappa annoys me a great deal

― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:15 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you just haven't heard the right stuff man

yeah I think Zappa is going to live on for a long time, there's so much to discover and I think regardless of what you think of him it's very hard to argue that he wasn't brilliant at least SOME of the time, and also that there isn't really anyone else like him - Zappa's work compares mostly to Zappa's other work

though I will say Ween > Zappa is pretty much otm. first of all, Ween have a great name. secondly, they're actually funny.

I've been waiting 30 years for the critical reappraisal of Styx and I believe I'll see it before I die

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:38 PM (40 minutes ago)

I have been trying for some years to convince people that 'Mr Roboto' is a fucking great song, to limited success. I don't really rate/know enough of the rest of their catalogue to be a proper front-runner in their rehabilitation, though.

lilith fair was mostly good, i hope those people get some reappraisal. i heard "adia" by sarah mclachlan song in the grocery store the other day and was like damn, we are still innocent.

I've done my part wrt 70s Styx. I hate "Mr. Roboto", though.

afaik, outside music circles people think sinead o'connor is the person who ripped up a picture of the pope and bjork is the person who wore a terrible swan dress and that's the sum of it

I don't see it here but a lot of kids in Buffalo seemed to know and like Styx in the mid- to late-00s, tbh. Also in Windsor. Maybe it's a Rust Belt thing.

well, "Blue Collar Man"

everyone otm with Hall & Oates and Yacht Rock in general. it was always soft corporate radio crap and then one year the ironic porn stache got big and they've been hip ever since.

strange relief to get old and realize, as all of these things cycle in and out of perceived coolness, that all is meaningless

everyone otm with Hall & Oates and Yacht Rock in general. it was always soft corporate radio crap and then one year the ironic porn stache got big and they've been hip ever since.

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:34 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i can explain this all fairly easily in my case, and i feel it's maybe pretty typical for people around my age (im 31). i know the music of hall and oates from my early childhood. im sufficiently distant from any kind of punk or rock'n'roll rockist ethos - probably helps that my sexagenarian mum and mother-in-law think like this - of thinking of pop music as "corporate crap" vis-à-vis some imagined purer, cooler music so when i was in my late teens around the turn of the millennium i started listening to hall and oates albums, along with a lot of other people of my generation.

strange relief to get old and realize, as all of these things cycle in and out of perceived coolness, that all is meaningless

cosign except i don't think this is actually strange

this is weird, because I just associate Hall & Oates, Steely Dan, the Eagles, and most Southern/dad/yacht rock with horrible tailgates/cookouts one wants to get away from fast

the girls don't seem to care

But it's as if there's a weird reversal that often happens where music that's comparatively bloodless (to use someone else's word from upthread) or edgeless in its time sometimes turns those flaws around and they become assets for future listeners

i watched a Ween live DVD, must've been recorded right before they broke up, but i was really suprised at how many women were in the audience, which is probably just dumb assumptions on my part but they seem like such a dude band...but i guess the biggest ween fan i know irl is a woman as well

― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 10:16 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when pichfork did that survey of readers favourite albums a few years ago, with a breakdown of what people voted for by demographics, didn't Ween come out as the artist with the highest ratio of male to female voters? I think Spektor was highest female to male ratio. idk if that was statistically significant, or how representative of Ween fans in general etc

Regina Spektor, that should say