shifts in popular opinion you have noticed

Like it's really fun to play this for people who think H&O are schlock, and watch their heads explode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6MVlSeaWEE

Hall & Oates are kind of like Fleetwood Mac, in that there's a long career that's all over the place, and people who don't know that won't really understand the band.

not sure that any effort is made to gain that kind of understanding by most people though. and i don't know if that's a recent thing or not. I know loaaaads of people my own age, girls in particular it seems, who very vocally worship certain parts of Fleetwood Mac (Rumours, 'Rhiannon' and 'Everywhere' primarily) but couldn't name more than Stevie Nicks and maybe at a push, Lindsay Buckingham, have never listened to Tusk and would probably be amazed to learn where the name came from or that there was ever such a thing as Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac. in spite of that, some of those songs really do have an extraordinary amount of cachet right now

Anyone who's seen a live NY Dolls video will appreciate the similarities. So a lot of this generational thing possibly just has to do with the way people are introduced to various bands. FWIW, I think B.A.D. are much better than Clash too, and I'm old. I felt that way at the time too...

If that video was the H&O I'd heard on the radio all the time, instead of their bloodless and pointless cover of "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling", I'd dig them. I like "Out of Touch" and "Family Man" ok, but "Maneater" and "Private Eyes" were just excruciating(ly inescapable).

Also, holy hell is that drummer a dead ringer for Keith Moon (visually, not musically).

lol yeah I thought that was Keith for a second too!

I think the lack of looking into bands' history is a constant. Nobody (when I was growing up) who liked The Wall knew Syd Barrett from applesauce.

Radiohead is much more mainstream and almost fits that nu-Pink Floyd type thing in society)

how do younger people view radiohead these days? like people who were children when kid a/amnesiac came out?

― marcos, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 12:17 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like is their nu-floyd "serious rock" legendary status cemented among college kids and younger twenty-somethings?

― marcos, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 12:18 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes I believe it still is. Source: pretty much just things I've seen on reddit. Also when I worked at a record store 4 years ago if that isn't too long ago.

college student here - radiohead absolutely have that sort of legendary status, or at least did for a while when i was a teenager. i think people generally recognise the hyperbole around them now though.

You guys are invited to watch my H&O panel at EMP Conference, where we'll show the depth of their careers.

I heard a weird electronic song once at a venue and I was like "hmm this is interesting" then Thom Yorke's voice came in and I felt unclean

What about Hall & Oates? It seems like I've never met a millennial who doesn't love them, whereas for me as a Gen Xer in the '80s they carried too much of a dad-rock/yuppie association to ever be completely cool, and even if some tracks were impressive, like "I Can't Go for That," they seemed year-to-year more like commercial whores or schlock peddlers. I'm not fully aware of which aspect of their music draws in younger people, whether it has to do with yacht rock cachet or if they just seem, out of context, like classic soul.. or something else.

― Josefa, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 11:44 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think as you get older you drop these unprovable associations and if you're younger you never had these associations in the first place. H&O wrote good songs and sung them well. What's there to dislike?

the length and breadth of H&O's career makes me respect them as both craftsmen and guys (particularly Hall) who are obviously deep music fans themselves. also hooks for days and a good singer, Alfred otm.

Sorry guys, but even my beloved Emm Gryner recording an EP of H&O covers couldn't convert me (her version of "She's Gone" is pretty enough, though)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URsyvChOu08

People don't seem to really give a fuck about ska these days, be it 1st, 2nd or third wave, do they?

― draxx them sklounst (dog latin), Thursday, April 7, 2016 1:34 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

people still love all the No Doubt singles but not really anything else I think

The Police sound is all over the place these days (Maroon 5, Bruno Mars, etc.), the gypsy melody in high voice over reggae-lite arrangement.

the only time the H&O revival annoyed me was when Sacred Songs started getting press in the mid and late '00s; like duh OF COURSE the Robert Fripp collaboration would get more attention than "Say It Isn't So."

Hall & Oates dislike is really just a function of ignorance, ultimately. And no judgement on people who don't know things like NYCNY. Access to info about music is weird and comes from very constrained sources. There's some interesting Madness stuff out there that isn't "Our House." Literally one article in a major media spot can completely change a band's status.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epLXwup4bpA

The Rolling Stones are cool again, comment upthread about not liking The Beatles now "a cool guy thing to do" is so otm. I was having a Beatles vs. Stones conversation with a friend about a year ago and he said "I'm more of a Goat's Head Soup kind of guy." Maybe it's the fact that they haven't released an album since 2005.

H&O wrote good songs and sung them well. What's there to dislike?

But then so did Teena Marie, and I don't hear her records when young folks party. It just seems H&O are being specially singled out out for some x factor.

The Police sound is all over the place these days (Maroon 5, Bruno Mars, etc.), the gypsy melody in high voice over reggae-lite arrangement.

agree with this, and again think this discussion is more critical reception than popular appreciation. Among pop pro songwriters, I'd wager Sting's value has depreciated much

hasn't that is

Not music, but I am profoundly dismayed by the ascendancy of professional wrestling's hipster cachet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJt50iT0HIg

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Screen-shot-2011-04-25-at-4.15.13-PM.png

i've always felt like it was really healthy to deny thy father and hate the beatles or whoever when you are young and find your own way and embrace what is happening in the world NOW or find alternate streams. and then listen to nothing but steely dan and Mccartney II demos when you are sad and old.

At the end of the day, one band basically predicted everything...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMGMhX-d0IY

yeah hating on Beatles. I get it -- but it's kind of like hating on Gershwin or someone. You don't have to listen to that stuff, or think it "holds up" as entertainment or whatever, but if you're in any way invested in songs as pieces of art, it's silly to hate them.

Yeah, and it'll come back around. Remember when the Beatles 1 compilation came out in 2000 and was the best selling album of the year? Maybe second behind N*SYNC? I remember Jim DeRo was flabbergasted it sold so well.

Disagree fwiw (xp)

Not that I hate them.

I'm open. I mean, I happen to love the Beatles -- but even if I didn't, it would be hard to argue they weren't game-changers. Not just because they were big, but because people didn't write songs like them until they came around -- and at the same time, they seemed to be a part of the same continuum as the old classic pop songwriters.

A better example for me would be Dylan. I don't care about him, but to deny his importance as a songwriter is kind of silly. Too many people using him as a model to deny the impact.

i was too cool for the beatles as a 90s teen. and even once i came to terms w/ being deeply uncool i guess i took them for granted or something, b/c i never really tried to listen to them outside of the ubiquitous stuff. (my parents were super-young country/pop fans who never made me listen to them either.)

last year i started going slowly through their stuff in chronological order, and having listened to so much other music at this point it's kind of been an interesting experience. (currently about to start rubber soul.)

Re: Beatles, hasn't Ringo opinion shifted from "luckiest man in pop history" to "underrated drumming great with perfect time and tasteful fills"?

waiting for "with better solo career hits" to be part of that reappraisal (cos it's true)

I've thought a lot about this, specifically relating to my own (and the world's broader) appetite for drone, experimental and electro acoustic music. All the Stockhausen samples on Demdike Stare electrifying my ears and the ears of my friends were eye-opening.

Much discussion in this thread pertains to the staying power of the artist, or larger societal notions of "cool", but I think the two biggest factors in changing people's taste are simply: broader accessibility of music, commodification of music.

Neu! has lost its appeal to most because it's already been bettered by so many of its followers. Its accessibility leads people to not view it as "seminal" but just as something that's been done better since then. Original distaste to Lionel and Phil was probably due to over-exposure, now? nobody is overexposed except maybe Drake. Accessibility has evened the playing field and I don't think people care nearly as much about music's context so much as they care about its quality and the public persona of the artist...

Commodification has made people move more difficult imo, never thought SOTL would be the clearest and biggest and best band on Kranky, after Grouper. Classical music is back in a big way because those textures just don't exist outside of film score in people's daily environments. Idk I see basic hipsters at solo gong concerts and Concord Sonata and it's not for cool points. They're actually looking for "new" sounds. In 2016 Boulez sounds like a relief to my ears and theirs. Too much CRJ in the cab and in the thinkpiece.

Nana Mouskouri is better than Carpenters, and def is in need of a revival. Never understood why the world had not so much interest in Yma Sumac and Buffy Sainte-Marie and other ballsy female voices (Dagmar Krause, Diamanda), but I think that's more patriarchal than aesthetic.

Tom waits? What is that music even for? I don't understand what usefulness that music serves, there is no mood created that serves as suitable accompaniment to any activity except maybe sillydancing with toddlers, nobody wants to be him or have him over, he is a filmmaker pretending to be a musician or something, and I can't deny how great his songs are-- so great!-- but the drunk-not-actually-drunk I-made-a-drum-out-of-a-bleach-bottle aesthetic is actually my uncle's steampunk cosplay. Worst musician after Zappa. Who, thankfully, most people have forgotten existed, I feel like he's more famous for his terrific 80s testimonials before congress now than he was for his terrible "dick joke in 15/8!" music.

I heard a weird electronic song once at a venue and I was like "hmm this is interesting" then Thom Yorke's voice came in and I felt unclean

― ejemplo (crüt), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 11:46 AM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Maybe it was a Flying Lotus track or one of TY's fantastic solo records.

In my world of young people, Radiohead is very present, even among people who mainly listen to rap and have them as their token arty electronic rock type band.

In 1996, Time Life Music gets to the heart of a decade...

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12923265_1584782645168715_4628087803903826249_n.jpg?oh=03e496ddc99b831051d650ff8fd66a95&oe=57BA18C8

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12923234_1584782788502034_8895001366037045360_n.jpg?oh=07429e5aad0fad4a4d1e36530ca9fd89&oe=577E18D0

Feel like in the 90s both Elton John and Stevie Wonder were hideous, mawkish figures of fun that your grandparents might like. Fast forward to the days of X Factor and you'd think they were all people listened to.

I think the pendulum has swung so far with h&o that now they're actually kind of overrated

"Sarah smile" and "your kiss is on my list" aside

i've always loved sarah smile so much. such a glorious creation.

sorry sara smile...

I always thought ABBA were considered a bit of a cheesy musicals and student-nights band until more recently, when people started digging out The Visitors again...

― draxx them sklounst (dog latin), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 7:06 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

playing this now! i have always liked my ABBA gold collection or whatever it's called, but i didn't know they had a moody latter day cult favorite.

"Laptop DJs aren't real DJs" isn't something I hear anymore, but was the de rigueur sentiment a decade ago.

first time i heard H&O outside of the radio (loved rich girl on the radio) was when my father brought home Livetime. which is a pretty good live album. i don't know why he bought it being the jazzhead he was. but he did like steely dan and stuff like that.

yeah the Visitors is classic, probably their best record, though Super Trouper is about as moody, maybe a bit more solemn sounding

Feel like in the 90s both Elton John and Stevie Wonder were hideous, mawkish figures of fun that your grandparents might like. Fast forward to the days of X Factor and you'd think they were all people listened to.

― suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:47 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't think stevie wonder ever lost his cache among the kinds of people with wall to ceiling LP shelves. he is to big of a talent to dismiss like that.

elton john is a different story. he is amazing of course but in a sort of campy, sing-tiny-dancer-at-the-top-of-your-lungs-when-the-bar's-closing kind of way.

Re: Beatles, hasn't Ringo opinion shifted from "luckiest man in pop history" to "underrated drumming great with perfect time and tasteful fills"?

― dinnerboat, Wednesday, April 6, 2016 12:26 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Probably accurate, although I always thought the latter (tbh didn't even know he was "underrated" until I started spending time around muso types who dissed him). FWIW, I just heard an old interview with George Martin where he talked about how instantly impressed he was with Ringo's drumming when he joined the band, and how in-demand Ringo was at the time, so I think it's only bitter chops monsters who ever propagated that idea.

when i was little i associated elton john with billy joel. it's my impression now that millennials have no time for the latter. i kind of have time for billy joel, but i think truly liking him means embracing the fact that the personality that comes across in his songs is an embittered, passive aggressive pos

xp paul mccartney has led the reappraisal of ringo's drumming skills. he makes a point of mentioning it all the time in interviews and stuff. "always on time" "the secret of our success" (these aren't exact quotes but still)