The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

It's just heartbreaking how their substance abuse and bad behavior comes back to haunt them, physically and professionally.

It got frustrating to read about Paul's annoyance at not having a hit, only for him to immediately turn around and viciously insult radio programming people to their faces. I'm not saying he should've unquestioningly Played The Game (and radio people are perfect/easy targets), but to complain about a lack of chart success while simultaneously and deliberately scuttling any hope of said success came across as the absolute worst kind of knee-jerk contrarianism.

(Funny thing is, though, WXRT in Chicago still played the 'Mats in regular rotation and promoted their local shows, even after their on-air dustup.)

Whoah, you guys are much faster readers than me! Guess I'll avoid this thread for a few days, ya spoilers. ;)

Not read the book, but I've always figured Paul for a dick. It's not exactly hidden in his songwriting. The smirky smartass turned self-important poet, kind of the worst of two types combined. And I say that as a huge fan. I never mistook him for someone I wanted to hang out with (or be in a band with, no doubt).

I can't believe he actually got meaner once he sobered up. He has almost no redeeming qualities in this book.

It's not like you expect a suddenly appealing side of any of them from the book, but I was quite unprepared for how hateful they all turned out to be. Bob, you understand why that happened. Chris seems to get fed up of it all. But Paul and Tommy behave like complete wankers from early on till late on.

No idea what Paul is really like now. I interviewed them both last year, and Paul was wary, Tommy chatty. Obviously, they're not as uncooperative with anyone and everyone as they were 30 years ago, but there's clearly a deep strain of suspicion of people's motives running strongly in Paul.

well, R.E.M. totally Played The Game and look what flops they were

Bob was doomed, Chris played along until he moved on. Of the two that "survived," Tommy seems to have that boyish rock star charm where you have to take the good with the bad, Paul is a classic strain of ex-alky who doesn't exhibit the most blatant bad behavior but still presents the same paranoia plus personality problems.

Tommy probably made decent money all those years as a member of GN'R. He was in that band (whatever you call it) longer than the Replacements and seemingly had the ability stand up to Axl Rose and not get fired.

The real hero of the book could be Johnette Napolitano from Concrete Blonde. The story of her recording vocals on All Shook Down is hysterical.

Tommy probably made decent money all those years as a member of GN'R. He was in that band (whatever you call it) longer than the Replacements and seemingly had the ability stand up to Axl Rose and not get fired.

― DavidLeeRoth,

one more chance to get it all wrong

I assume Tommy's DGAF attitude helped him navigate Axl road.

I interviewed Paul several times from 1994 til like 2005, and he was wary then, too. There was always lingering bitterness about not having a hit, he has a weird attachment to doing things his way and then expecting a hit to happen. And honestly I think Paul's wariness makes Tommy more wary than he would otherwise be. Tommy always seemed to understand that things would turn out for him--he seems genuinely happier. He was on salary with GnR, it totally saved him.

One of the things I learned from the book was how much Paul allegedly practiced playing guitar and that he had a natural knack for it.

Two weird details about Paul's attitude that I keep coming back to: his sabotage of his relationship with Mo Ostin and the fact that Chris Mars had to sneak out to museums because they were "on tour, ... not tourists."

Man, tales of Steve Hoffman forum has a twelve page thread on this book- see you guys later!

It's probably mostly about the poor sample rate used on the audiobook.

xpost It reminds me a bit of Springsteen, who was a shit-hot guitarist but then spent much of his career simplifying his playing. In his own way, he, too, like Paul was given "permission" by punk to not show off.

It really does read like Paul was standard issue bully/class clown, hampered by low self-esteem and in turn lashing out/self-sabotaging/goading others. He's definitely gifted, but also weirdly and very self-awarely contrarian (not unlike Alex Chilton, for probably similar reasons). For all their issues, Tommy and Bob come off the most positive, maybe because they really don't care and are happy to be along for the ride, at least for a while, with Chris the most "normal," possibly because he has interests outside the band. But Paul, he does care, just not consistently, and often at the wrong time, bad traits exacerbated by his alcoholism, depression, etc..

Well, if Westerberg's so good why are his leads on PTMM so dull? That was my thought when I read that section.

Think he was a good rhythm guitarist but yeah those leads on that album are a snooze.

I still haven't figured out how to play "Answering Machine" after like 30 years of trying, so he must have had some tricks up his sleeve...

It's probably mostly about the poor sample rate used on the audiobook.

Bob Stinson to me, unlike Paul, was a PURE lead player...rather than a rhythm guitarist playing some professional sounding but uninspired leads

I'm thinking of that utterly demented lead before the break in "We're Comin' Out"... I don't think Westerberg could ever come up with something like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biPWphtNSXE

Singer-songwriters of Paul's personality type are a dime a dozen. They just generally don't get famous outside of your town.

(Extraordinary talent included in this analysis.)

Is it worth comparing him to another such fellow who was better able to rein in his self-destructive side and cash in on his pretensions?

I'm talking to you Napoleon Dynamite.

( insert comma appropriately)

Thank you for talking to me Napoleon Dynamite

lol

I disagree that every town has a Paul Westerberg. They may all have a Replacements, or ragged bar band, but he has this uncanny ability to stumble onto some really great lyrics and heartfelt music. He has a number of songs that caught me on first listen and stuck with me for life, which is more than I can say for 95% of the bands/singer-songwriters I hear. Now, if you told me every city had, say, a Shawn Colvin, sure. But Paul Westerberg? More uncommon, unless you're talking about the dozens of singers in his wake that owe him something.

Has any other band been as plagued by press about how they should have been big? It seemed like every article about them from Tim onward had this "Why aren't they as popular as REM?" angle. Not sure if the writers picked this up from Westerburg, or if having writers constantly assuring him that the band had hit potential pushed him toward that ambition.

Well, sort of like Husker Du, they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Certainly the success of Soul Asylum and Goo Goo Dolls - and both were *really* successful - proved that. Bad timing, like the bit in the book where the guy dismisses Tim as too rough around the edges to get played on the radio, and then years later dismissed All Shook Down for being too slick to get played on the radio.

I didn't say that your town's Paul Westerberg was gigging, or gigging anymore!

you come from a town called malice

Stop hypothesizing
For the things they've never done

Bob Stinson to me, unlike Paul, was a PURE lead player...rather than a rhythm guitarist playing some professional sounding but uninspired leads

I'm thinking of that utterly demented lead before the break in "We're Comin' Out"... I don't think Westerberg could ever come up with something like that

― Master of Treacle, Monday, March 21, 2016 10:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is OTM. Paul may have practiced a lot, but Bob was far more obsessive as a player. He'd spend hours trying to pick up Steve Howe's parts from Yes records, and while the Howe influence is generally hard to detect (apart from the "Strawberry Fields" intro to "Mr. Whirly," straight out of Howe's rendition with Tomorrow), it was one of the things that kept Bob's playing unpredictable in ways Westerberg would never have attempted.

And I don't really buy the story that Bob couldn't solo on "I Will Dare" because "Those aren't my chords!" I mean, the guy learned all of Tales from Topographic Oceans; no way would he have been uncomfortable outside of standard chord changes.

Or, conversely, I don't really buy that the guy learned all of "Tales from Topographic Oceans."

Soul Asylum and Goo Goo Dolls

in addition to these guys i think the gin blossoms kinda lived out the idea of a "successful" replacements

Yeah my first thought when I heard "Hey Jealousy" was that someone owed Westerberg a royalty check. Otoh, Westerberg's still alive, so..

hmm. the Goo Goo Blossoms, with their penchant for mush sung by hoarse vocals, were a lot closer to the Mats than Gin Blooms.

(that was intentional)

thanks God, never "successful"

http://alanpaul.net/2014/09/a-pretty-damn-good-interview-with-paul-westerbeg/

GW: Do you hear your influence in other bands often?
WESTERBERG: Not often enough. I hear my influence in a whole lot of people who profess to never have heard us, which bothers me a little. It’s fine when people acknowledge where they got it. You’re welcome to anything—borrow, lift, steal it all, as long as you admit it, because I’ve always been honest about where I took things, whether it be Eric Carmen or Hüsker Dü.
GW: The Goo Goo Dolls have always sounded a lot like the Replacements and they had a hit with “Name,” which sounds like one of your outtakes.
WESTERBERG: What can I say? For seven years John Reznick had to talk about me. Now I have to talk about him. The Goo Goo Dolls obviously fall into the category of a band that listened a lot to the Replacements, learned from us and took from us, but have made no bones about it. So they have my blessing.
GW: Have you heard Wilco or Son Volt?
WESTERBERG: Ugh. No comment. I’m always mystified when I hear my own voice on the radio. I never know who it is and it’s really weird when I realize, “Oh my God, this is me.” Well, I’ve thought I heard myself a few times when it’s been them, and that makes me very uncomfortable. They’ll swear up and down that I’m full of shit and they never listened to us. I guess we listened to the same people growing up then.

the gin blossoms were like an 80's green on red/plimsouls type band who grunged it up a bit for the nineties.

clearly in debt to westy too though

One mystery revealed/ruined by the book, imo - not necessarily in a bad way - is how many of Paul's lyrics were about the band or the response to the band members or otherwise mundane band things and in-jokes. I felt the same way when I started learning about Smiths lyrics, about how so many of them are about the band's fame, or the response to the band, or a response to fans or critics.

ie why i gen don't read musician bios

although now i would just forget all the details in 3 months

gotta make room for all those jerry lewis anecdotes eh

lol i'm sorry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCfdxyZEyxY

From that Steve Hoffman forum (where Mehr made an appearance):

At the book event in St. Paul, Mehr indicated that he wants to make this project an ongoing thing -- not only in the form of a revised/expanded paperback edition, but also somehow releasing the archival audio and video material he gained access to in his research.

Bob's lead is hotter than a urinary tract infection. Ha!

That version of 'Can't Hardly Wait' on TSHTF is so amazing.