The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

At the very least, the book has finally learned me the actual lyrics to "Bastards of Young."

I knew the Replacements were big drinkers, but I had no idea they carried it to such excess as detailed in the book (not to mention all the self-destruction when it came to their careers, despite their serious desires for a hit record). It’s a wonder any of them still have functioning livers. And it seemed that every new character Mehr introduced came from a family with a history of hard drinking and/or mental illness. One of the saddest rock bios ever.

otm. There were points where I just had to stop reading, as it was making me feel hungover (it didn't help that I read most of it while recuperating from an insane stomach virus). Had a similar experience with the Keith Moon bio.

Replacements are like a band with four Keith Moons.

Well, and a few Kenny Joneses toward the end.

Which is ironic, given where Jones came from.

I wrote this on FB yesterday: I don't read rock bios but this Replacements book by Bob Mehr is among the more enervating stories of its kind I've read. I keep thinking, "What is about America that turns the John Cheevers and Scott Fitzgeralds and Paul Westerbergs into mean infantile drunks?" Then I think, "Right, it's a touring van through north Louisiana and south Arkansas.'

Sure, but obviously he's also self-medicating. Depression, low self-esteem, better to preemptively self-destruct than to fail, etc., which is all in the book. Also, for most of the band's existence the drinking age was only 19, which is a bad temptation for a band of high-school dropouts from alcoholic and/or abusive and certainly negligent or absentee families. Like I got from the Motley Crue book way back when, these guys were all self-destructive and prone to substance abuse before they even formed a band.

Ya think?

Self destructive and self medicating is more or less the American Way. Westerberg is just better at communicating about it than a lot of his peers. Or through it. Or writing songs about it.

I think a lot about if there's something about living in the Midwest that explains this or if I'm just projecting.

i love the replacements but find most rock bios a chore (w/ obvious exceptions like tosches, guralnick, jon savage, stanley booth), so i never would've picked this up but i'm intrigued by the descriptions here. maybe i'll give it a shot.

It's not on the level of say, Chronicles or Careless Love, but it is certainly a fine rock bio. But as this thread makes clear, it's bleak as hell. And I'm only up to Sorry Ma.

I've been reading a bunch of these lately, and while I think it's better than the Grace Jones and the Elvis Costello (which is a weird sort of hybrid of ideas), it's not quite as good as Warren Zanes' Tom Petty book, which is quieter but just as sad at times.

I actually preferred this to Careless Love, which struck me as having a pretty dispassionate tone.

Huh, I actually think this one is pretty dispassionate, too, in a good, journalistic way. Not passing judgement, not rooting for anyone to succeed or fail. Just the facts, let the subjects interview make up their own minds.

Only prob I have with the book is the use of "said" when attributing quotes. I'm not sure what the correct verb tense solution was/is, but I would have liked to know which quotes are what the parties involved are saying *now* (from new interviews), and which are quotes they said *then* (in past interviews). Book doesn't always clarify.

There's something about the way Mehr lays out the story and sets up various dramas that I found missing from Guralnick's book (though, significantly, said qualities were not missing from Last Train to Memphis). Mehr seems more engaged with/invested in the subject matter.

Did this movie ever get released?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUGpDlJYQTE&index=208&list=FLAgf5iJsS7dbph_2rxJjPiQ

sets up various dramas that I found missing from Guralnick's book

The drama in Careless Love is all happening within Elvis. It wasn't like a band member was going to give him any trouble. Even Col. Tom would have done anything Elvis wanted, if he just asked. But he never did.

Then, the last 5 years were just a death spiral that was just so vivid and disturbing. That was my main takeaway from Careless Love, just how bad Elvis was with drugs from about 1972 onward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51mjsxOa-40&app=desktop

I saw Hayday at a Minneapolis film festival, but even here it's only been screened a handful of times. I would imagine music licensing is a nightmare, and the director doesn't seem very interested in wider release. xpost

http://blog.mcnallysmith.edu/blog/2011/10/04/an-interview-with-rick-fuller-director-of-first-avenue-hayday/

The drama in Careless Love is all happening within Elvis. It wasn't like a band member was going to give him any trouble. Even Col. Tom would have done anything Elvis wanted, if he just asked. But he never did.

Then, the last 5 years were just a death spiral that was just so vivid and disturbing. That was my main takeaway from Careless Love, just how bad Elvis was with drugs from about 1972 onward.

― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, March 16, 2016 2:42 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, it's been a while since I read it, but I was surprised at how disengaged Guralnick seemed (though not always; there were brief, welcome moments where his critical voice popped up); maybe it's an unfair criticism, but it got to a point where I felt like I was just reading lists of prescription drugs...which is essentially what Elvis' life had become anyway.

I really like Guralnick but I struggled with his Sam Cooke for the same reason. "On the morning of blah blah, Cooke wore a white suit with brown shoes and took a cab from such and such street to this other street and paid the driver $. He stepped out, left foot first, and closed the door behind him with his right hand." It got so bogged down in the details I started losing interest in the bigger picture.

YES, that's it. Details, details details...which, as the 'Mats books shows, can be assembled in a way that's engaging and moves the story along. And I generally like Guralnick -- Sweet Soul Music and the first Elvis volume are ace. But I passed on the Cooke bio, fearing it'd be similar in tone to Careless Love (and the reviews confirmed this -- too much talk, not enough rock).

Interesting. I love the details, and the rigidly chronological structure. To me it really brought Elvis to life. Plus, throughout the entire Careless Love era, Elvis didn't really record that much essential music outside of what he did in Memphis in 1968-69.

Not sure how much fun it would be to read a deep critical analysis of Moody Blue.

The thing is, I LOVE the '70s Elvis box, and '70s Elvis in general, much more than '60s Elvis, and even more than some '50s Elvis. I guess the details I wanted were more about how he picked his (incredible, amazing) band, how he chose the material for He Touched Me...and tbf, maybe it was there and I'm just forgetting it.

Plus, throughout the entire Careless Love era, Elvis didn't really record that much essential music outside of what he did in Memphis in 1968-69.

Hahahahahaaaaa fuck yooooouuuuu

'70s Elvis > '50s Elvis > '60s Elvis

Cosigning that.

now that we've covered elvis and winona in addition to the replacements i feel like this thread really gets me

I really like Guralnick but I struggled with his Sam Cooke for the same reason. "On the morning of blah blah, Cooke wore a white suit with brown shoes and took a cab from such and such street to this other street and paid the driver $. He stepped out, left foot first, and closed the door behind him with his right hand." It got so bogged down in the details I started losing interest in the bigger picture.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:10 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's funny--this is exactly what initially frustrated me about Robin Kelley's Thelonious Monk bio, which I struggled with and almost put down a few times. But then I sorta got into the groove of it and it ended up being one of my favorite music biographies. It's a matter of adapting to that style, I think. Like reading Gertrude Stein or something. But I hear ya - it can be tedious. "Monk's regular driver, Gary, was sick that Thursday, so Gary's brother Larry was given the job, but he had to borrow a car because he didn't have one of his own" etc etc*

Bought the Mats book, eager to dive in. Unfortunately it arrived on the same day as the new edition of England's Hidden Reverse. I may never read fiction again!

*(not an exact quote but pretty close)

wholeheartedly agree about 70s Elvis

xp

That Monk bio stymied me, too, but I might go back to it. I think my local library has it.

Yeah, couldn't get into it either.

From M. Matos article in Pitchfork on First Avenue

At that show, a local musician watched U2 run through its biggest hit, “I Will Follow,” twice. With a mixture of inspiration and bemusement that would become his calling card, Paul Westerberg then went off and wrote an answer song. Soon his band, the Replacements, were performing “Kids Don’t Follow” along with a torrent of other similarly snotty material.

http://pitchfork.com/features/article/9832-everybody-is-a-star-how-the-rock-club-first-avenue-made-minneapolis-the-center-of-music-in-the-80s/

The Replacements also attempt a cover of "I Will Follow" on "Shit Hits the Fans."

I love the details! Though the last rock bio I read was the Mark Lewisham Beatles PT 1, and I guess in that book all the details serve to make the almost religious figures of the Beatles into real life kids again.

Enjoying this very much so far.

Side note: weird to me how Anita Stinson repeatedly exposed her children to drunken, abusive monsters. Every five paragraphs it's "Then she met so and so, and he was also an alcoholic misanthrope who abused the children mercilessly"

So far, Paul isn't coming off as quite the bully he's been portrayed as in previous books. But I just started this last night (they've just changed their name from the Impediments)

I love that both Bob and Paul were Johnny Winter fans

At a certain point in the book it feels like every single major character is an alcoholic. It kind of reminded me of the Johnny Cash bio, with pills.

I found the recording of Don't Tell a Soul sort of illuminating. Revealing that while yeah, they recorded to a click, Wallace says Mars was dead on and that it was the other three who were off and had to be fixed with studio tricks. Also sort of tragic that the band more or less waits until they are burned out to finally make a real stab at success. It's just heartbreaking how their substance abuse and bad behavior comes back to haunt them, physically and professionally. It's like these guys were so messed up and self medicated that they totally lack the means to communicate like normal human beings.

Westerberg does not come off well. He's just mean and a dick to everyone. There is clearly something wrong with the guy based on this book.

Only rock guy I've ever hated more after reading a bio is Warren Zevon.

Revealing that while yeah, they recorded to a click, Wallace says Mars was dead on and that it was the other three who were off and had to be fixed with studio tricks.

As someone who had subscribed to the "click-track messed Mars up" theory, this was definitely revealing. However, Mars still dialed back his fills -- no more "Favorite Thing" tumbles to be heard.

I actually found the technical aspects -- using a Fairlight on PTMM, Wallace fixing DTAS with a digital delay (still not clear on how that worked) -- fascinating, particularly in a book where I absolutely did not expect to read about such things.

It's just heartbreaking how their substance abuse and bad behavior comes back to haunt them, physically and professionally.

It got frustrating to read about Paul's annoyance at not having a hit, only for him to immediately turn around and viciously insult radio programming people to their faces. I'm not saying he should've unquestioningly Played The Game (and radio people are perfect/easy targets), but to complain about a lack of chart success while simultaneously and deliberately scuttling any hope of said success came across as the absolute worst kind of knee-jerk contrarianism.

(Funny thing is, though, WXRT in Chicago still played the 'Mats in regular rotation and promoted their local shows, even after their on-air dustup.)

Whoah, you guys are much faster readers than me! Guess I'll avoid this thread for a few days, ya spoilers. ;)

Not read the book, but I've always figured Paul for a dick. It's not exactly hidden in his songwriting. The smirky smartass turned self-important poet, kind of the worst of two types combined. And I say that as a huge fan. I never mistook him for someone I wanted to hang out with (or be in a band with, no doubt).

I can't believe he actually got meaner once he sobered up. He has almost no redeeming qualities in this book.

It's not like you expect a suddenly appealing side of any of them from the book, but I was quite unprepared for how hateful they all turned out to be. Bob, you understand why that happened. Chris seems to get fed up of it all. But Paul and Tommy behave like complete wankers from early on till late on.

No idea what Paul is really like now. I interviewed them both last year, and Paul was wary, Tommy chatty. Obviously, they're not as uncooperative with anyone and everyone as they were 30 years ago, but there's clearly a deep strain of suspicion of people's motives running strongly in Paul.

well, R.E.M. totally Played The Game and look what flops they were

Bob was doomed, Chris played along until he moved on. Of the two that "survived," Tommy seems to have that boyish rock star charm where you have to take the good with the bad, Paul is a classic strain of ex-alky who doesn't exhibit the most blatant bad behavior but still presents the same paranoia plus personality problems.

Tommy probably made decent money all those years as a member of GN'R. He was in that band (whatever you call it) longer than the Replacements and seemingly had the ability stand up to Axl Rose and not get fired.

The real hero of the book could be Johnette Napolitano from Concrete Blonde. The story of her recording vocals on All Shook Down is hysterical.

Tommy probably made decent money all those years as a member of GN'R. He was in that band (whatever you call it) longer than the Replacements and seemingly had the ability stand up to Axl Rose and not get fired.

― DavidLeeRoth,

one more chance to get it all wrong