ILX Gonna Shine in My Backdoor Someday (new post-Fahey folk for ppl posting in Takoma/Tompkins Square threads Pt II)

I mean, the solo guitar recording/track can sometimes use a counterpoint for sure, i.e. benefit from the ambient/incidental sounds. I just don't elevate this approach over all others. It is just one option, which can be wonderful or unnecessary, just depends.

i think the only time this has really distracted or bothered me was on the last mississippi john hurt recordings when you can hear him wheezing as he plays

― ogmor, Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:35 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i can't listen to keith jarret at all because of all his weird noises

ha, is there a post-fahey equivalent to #jarrettgrunts?
i don't get all a-titter when i read that there are cicadas in the mix, but when it works, it works -- actually the Glenn Jones "nature sounds" on his latest and My Garden State are probably the best recent examples I can think of.

i guess orcutt hums along a lot of the time

The Orcutt hums bothered me when I saw him live, as it seemed like a forced gimmick to further validate him as an interesting weirdo artist. I know that's cynical, but I would revaluate and say that things like that can be good for creating atmosphere around an approach.

I like Glenn's stuff and, like many here, I loved My Garden State, but this

Jones and Baird made no attempt to soundproof the recording environment, happy to let sounds filtering in from the outdoors to become part of the listening experience

is a pet peeve (admittedly a nit-picky one). I can almost hear so-called purists nodding their heads in agreement with this statement in the bio, taking for granted that this is the only way to "really record a guitar, man" without considering the alternative (see also: analog vs digital wars). The 'mic the room' cult has grown larger over time, perhaps thanks to negative Windham Hill (also possibly Ani DiFranco) 'direct into the board' connotations, perhaps due to the success of people like Lanois and T-Bone. Again, I realize this is the very essence of a first world problem but, you know, not everything has to be audio vérité. Sometimes I just want to hear the instrument and not the instrument in the room, if that makes any sense. Would be curious to hear the opinions of folks here who are recording themselves (or other acoustic players).

― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Thursday, March 10, 2016 11:18 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Similarly, I don't think this is a purists thing, but really just a way to create atmosphere as well in a subtle way. Solo instrumentals can more easily achieve atmosphere this way, as there otherwise isn't very many ingredients to work with.

i guess the ultimate answer is the same for any recording techique/approach to production:

it depends

i'll admit to being a sucker for rain sounds on records ... like this michael rother track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om1j-k0HDLE
or like all of Mickey Newbury's Looks Like Rain ...

and oh hey, you can check out a new marisa anderson track now: http://marisaanderson.bandcamp.com/album/into-the-light

glenn jones sounding like a 'classic' glenn jones bit, no big twists but always good to get some more from him! also i generally find it hard to wrap my head around a stream/'first listen' (esp when there's no track list so this opinion may change)

i agree that the 'audio verite' thing gets a little cute. there's something to be said for the atmosphere it can add and how it adds an additional sonic palette to work with but i wonder if it's getting somewhat cliche in this genre (see also: obligatory 'droney'/collage-style track stuck in the middle of tracklisti to illustrate one's stylistic breadth). can't think of too many examples of the latter atm (and maybe pointing the finger at myself) but i feel like it's also a trope of the genre

I find it incredible that anyone could keep blissfully hoovering up the soundalike dreck offered by the various clueless biters esteemed in this thread only to be finally dumped out of their reverie by the hackneyed creak of a chair or some distant birdsong

it's pretty incredible, you're right

haha! ogmor can always be counted on to bring the pain...

i just feel like we're talking about this topic to have something to talk about, not because anyone has majorly strong opinions. or at least i thought so

haha I try to resist but sometimes this thread puts me in an awkward position and the role of curmudgeon is just so comfy. it is truly a privilege to be able to luxuriate in such rarefied disagreements with you good people tho, it's v civilizing

but, yes, I really love a lot of environmental/added sound, a lot of my fav recordings feature it. it's definitely a trope/sub-genre/cliche but there are a lot of those in this little corner of the musical landscape and I think it's a benign one

Specific little subgenres with cult followings like "American Primitive" are always same-y sounding. We could do the same thing with metal subgenres. It would be silly to start getting all picky over tropes.

true. and getting too into 'tropes' starts making us like a person who edits tvtropes and those people are p weird

well, the embracing of certain little details and the reducing down of the technique/sound of a few big players is what has created this subgenre. I don't think anyone would have said sandy bull/fahey/basho/peter walker/bola sete etc. sounded v samey, or even jack rose/SBJ/glenn jones/harris newman but I suppose there's something about the transfer of musical information across generations that can lead to a sort of streamlining and a more limited vocabulary starts to sound cliche

Certain artists will be remembered in the long run but it all depends on how deeply invested you are. Daniel Bachmann for example may stand out to someone really immersed in the genre and not at all to someone who isn't.

i guess my question to you ogmor is what is different about this current crop of 'clueless biters' versus fahey, basho, jack rose, etc... they're still subsuming and converting their influences into their music. so either they're doing it artlessly (unlike fahey and co) or my conception of them subsuming and converting their influences is erroneous- that the 'conversion' into something specifically unique might not be happening

i think part of what made fahey and basho unique was adapting unexpected material (fahey- classical, basho- persian/indian). but when unexpected material runs short in a media-saturated environment being 'unique' is harder to pull off. i'd say what jack rose did was unique was unabashedly melding basho/fahey/ragtime into his own stew. so once that's been done once, what is left?

*the thing jack rose did that was unique*, that should read, ugh, my brain aint workin today

I mean it's like, say, be-bop players if you put on jazz to lots of people well hey that sounds like jazz and it might be sonny stitt or it might be cannonball adderly to a square whereas to a real hip jazzbo beatnik reefer tokin' hepcat like myself each player takes a spin on the style that is personal

i personally use a lack of ability as a bulwark being a clueless biter, my mouth is to small to bite the gods

even though fahey's name is on the thread I think jack rose looms larger over a lot of this stuff. he was an amazing live performer and that stew was potent enough that a lot of people are still trying to recapture it. even just the sound of his guitar playing is influential. I guess his death softened my feelings about it a bit but at the time I was a bit unsure about some of jack rose's faheyisms, but I do think he employed them v knowingly and deliberately, all part of the stew

although I do think some of the stuff in this thread is egregiously derivative, even I still notice that there are still plenty of influences coming into this style from elsewhere, it's just not stuff I really care for, styles that sound a bit tired to me

also global check your ilxmail

"my mouth is too small to bite the gods" < this is mb the most wonderful thing I have read on ilx

yeah that was a great turn of phrase.

Just wanna say I am a fan of all of you folks. Also, I think Ogmor's statement "I still notice that there are still plenty of influences coming into this style from elsewhere, it's just not stuff I really care for, styles that sound a bit tired to me" is a key to an ability to enjoy any genre/era of music generally (considering the beginning of this thread some kind of "era" for the things we tend do discuss here for better or worse). Sometimes getting super-into a scene/genre/era of music can make it really difficult to enjoy later incarnations/expansions of/homages to that same kind of music. I have narrowed my listening over the years as there are some genres I worked through at a time in my life that I just get tired following now. I just don't have the appetite to hear, for instance, 25 years olds play vaguely power-poppy indie-rock style tunes no matter how well done. They could be pretty amazing at it, but man I just can't muster the energy to care. My ears get tired quickly with a lot of stuff these days are trying to parse out what thread of musical history a band/musician is playing off of to make what they are doing unique (cause every musician is unique in some way or another if you really listen) is not something I really care to do much these days. I do not find this as difficult with solo musicians, and personally I find the journey through the choices they make fun and enjoyable even when I don't find what they are doing mind-blowing or particularly fresh/new. Like, simple note choices and phrasing and even the simple sound of solo players I have a high tolerance for, but with bands I just find that I cycle through what they are doing really fast and can dismiss it super easily. Basically I like being a jerk about bands way more than I do folks in this area hah hah. I am glad that Ogmor is here to provide the counter to my inclinations and make me think a little harder about what I am responding to.

Uggh, so many typos. "... we tend to discuss", "... and trying to parse"

That was awkward. You know, The Smith Westerns were standing literally right behind you as you said all that.

Hah hah, I have never heard The Smith Westerns. I am fine with that. *listens pleasantly once more to an nth generation solo guitar tune*

(Young power pop bands look out into crowd anxiously, are saddened to see the seat "Reserved for grandavis" remains empty... yet again)

"Waiting For Grandavis" would probably be a boring movie.

Wow I almost forgot to mention I received the new Glenn record in the mail yesterday! I love the notes he provides about each track (as he's always done of course).

FYI, listening to a forthcoming solo guitar record with all kinds of nature sounds and i'm loving it! LOVING IT.

Can't be more specific?

I like this North Country Primitive mix, especially the Matt Sowell and Nic Garcia tracks. Never heard of either of these guys before. And Fosburgh is always good - love his track on here at the end.

xp yeah it's this Kristin Thora Haraldsdottir record coming out on vdsq in a little while. Sounds pretty nice in the first go-round.

Oh ok I'll check that out! Thought maybe it was secret...

grandavis sounding lush here!
https://daisqueue.bandcamp.com/album/dais-queue-live-3-9-2016-2

Oh hey, thanks global, I appreciate it. Decided to mix in the electric 12 string. Thanks for tuning in.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/music/2016/03/16/guitarist-glenn-jones-opens-new-possibilities/2rV8OBHka0N3oH9acdr55N/story.html

Nice to see Glenn get a lot of press for this record. Well-earned for all the efforts he has been involved in over the years.

I don’t mind if the birds and the insects or whatever else are bleeding onto the track. I think that really adds something to it, rather than takes away from it.

contentious statements from glenn

on that same note, i went to see matmos this week and it reminded me that most of my home recordings have washing machine/dryer/furnace noise on them. it's not birds & wind but it's ambient noise. i kinda like it even if it's not technically as pretty as cicadas or w/e.

That approach matches his style. Others benefit from studio environments. Depends on the material and the intention!

Really like this run down of playing in an alternate tuning:

"There are guys and gals that have spent their lives playing standard tuning and never have gotten to the bottom of it. It’s an incredible mystery, and there’s just so much theory and so much you can do with it. But I have a hard time composing in standard tuning. Maybe it’s just because I kinda feel like, well it’s G chord but I don’t own this G chord — it kind of was there before me, it will be there after I’m gone. In non-standard tunings I may be hitting on the occasional G chord, but somehow I feel I own that G chord, because I got to it in such a roundabout way and had to dig my way through the underbrush and all that stuff. It’s a different experience. So putting those kind of obstacles in my path, the pieces that I compose become a way of navigating a new and unfamiliar landscape."

Ditto Glenn.

Yeah, my own stumbled upon tunings feel proprietary to me. And there's something new and exciting about them, where I don't know what I'm playing but it sounds good. When I hear a straightforward standard tuning folk song played with basic chords and there isn't an atmosphere/energy that is compensating for that generic simplicity than I am usually really bored by it. Alt tunings can provide a bit of magic.

then*

listening to a new danny paul grody tape and it's got some nice birdcall kinda things happening on one track. makes me think of john martyn's "small hours."

My god, what a track. The story of its creation only adds to its genius.

This live version is astounding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLVM560Fok

Fack me. I deliberately tried to add that as a 'no embed.' Apologies.

Oh, the new Chris Forsyth is out? :D