The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

Westerberg's solo material sounds sad, as in, this quiet snowfall of melancholy buries the often good tunes.

by the way I bought the bio. Hooray.

Enjoy.

Westerberg's solo material sounds sad, as in, this quiet snowfall of melancholy buries the often good tunes.

So maybe I should scroll back up thread again to see prior discussion /zingtouch but for those who vastly prefer Twin/Tone material, is Tim the acme because of the slower stuff like "Unsatisfied" and " Sixteen Blue" or is it a little bit of a drop off because of, I dunno, corny Peter Buck solo?

Aargh I meant to type Let It Be, not Tim. I need to go to sleep.

I'll be home when I'm sleeping.

let it be was the first mats album i heard and a life-changing album for me. still my sentimental fave for a million reasons, but not because of "unsatisfied," which i find kind of annoying, but "androgynous" is a great slow one and "favorite thing" is a great fast one and there's a seeming effortlessness to the whole thing that i've always found endearing and magical. the songwriting peaks here too, i think.

but there are days when i prefer the hopped-up carelesscore of sorry ma or the careening rock and roll sloppiness of hootenanny, which are both great four-musketeer us-against-the-world rock band albums to my ears. "customer" are "lovelines" are as good as they ever got. as is "god damn job." as is "i.o.u." for that matter. it's not as if they immediately started sucking when they dumped bob. they just changed.

Objectively I would agree with every word of your excellent post. And yet

I was wondering yesterday how anyone would feel about the band if they had broken up after "Let It Be." I'd argue that it's the iconic stuff on the next two major label albums that have accounted for the band's longevity (as such). If the group had called it quits earlier do you think people would talk about the Replacements the same way, or maybe the way they talk about cultier fare like Mission of Burma, or the Feelies, or even the Descendants or something? Maybe they'd be on par with the Minutemen in terms of reputation?

Tim has "Bastards of Young" and "Here Comes a Regular" which are the 2 songs that really almost self consciously turn the Replacements into a myth

There was this discussion I got involved in once many years ago about Aerosmith's Rocks vs. Toys In The Attic, which may be relevant. Toys has some bigger hits but Rocks is a completely solid slab of, um, rock, from beginning to end.

(Improving my Let It Be streaming experience now by manually inserting a side break)

yeah, they would be regarded like those bands. there were many late 30s-early 40s biz types and crit dudes in the 1980s, like the Musician magazine cohort, who had no use for the pre-hootenanny shit and very much were rooting for PW to become the kind of Springsteen/jackson browne singer-songwriter classic rock guy that they desperately wanted to stem the tide of hair-metal, hip-hop and Janet Jackson/madonna. those people were "be professional, stop fucking around with Ted Nugent & Kiss and hardcore and do songwriterly real rock." they never forgot paul and afforded them opportunities and courtesies that, say, would not be extended to Mike Watt. but it would seem the advent of the Goo Goo Dolls showed what the future would be like if they were obedient and followed instructions.

The mats were one of my favorites in the '80s (I am not offended by DTAS like many are), but I must admit that I didn't figure out what that selfname nickname meant until around the Forest Hills gig in 2014.

Westerberg's solo material sounds sad, as in, this quiet snowfall of melancholy buries the often good tunes.

hey that quiet snowfall of melancholy unlocks the melody of "angels walk"

if they had a "different" ie hardworking career, I doubt the 'legend' would be bigger.

hopped-up carelesscore

Great description! I like Let It Be fine, but Sorry Ma is my favorite Replacements record by miles. I was there for their earliest shows, and they were so ferociously good right out of the gate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TsVsrlDErw

to veronica moser's point above-it went well beyond rooting, I remember Rolling Stone named Westerberg Best New Songwriter or something after Let It Be.
the critical adulation was off the charts.

yeah, they would be regarded like those bands. there were many late 30s-early 40s biz types and crit dudes in the 1980s, like the Musician magazine cohort, who had no use for the pre-hootenanny shit and very much were rooting for PW to become the kind of Springsteen/jackson browne singer-songwriter classic rock guy that they desperately wanted to stem the tide of hair-metal, hip-hop and Janet Jackson/madonna. those people were "be professional, stop fucking around with Ted Nugent & Kiss and hardcore and do songwriterly real rock." they never forgot paul and afforded them opportunities and courtesies that, say, would not be extended to Mike Watt. but it would seem the advent of the Goo Goo Dolls showed what the future would be like if they were obedient and followed instructions.

― veronica moser, Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:33 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a great post, and food for thought re Goo Goo Dolls (also the Soul Asylum circa GDU -- was Pirner the Westerberg they could make behave?)

Side note: Having fell into a Mats Youtube k-hole this week thanks to this thread, I find myself wishing there were still pop stars in the states with working class accents

like the Musician magazine cohort, who had no use for the pre-hootenanny shit and very much were rooting for PW to become the kind of Springsteen/jackson browne singer-songwriter classic rock guy that they desperately wanted to stem the tide of hair-metal, hip-hop and Janet Jackson/madonna. those people were "be professional, stop fucking around with Ted Nugent & Kiss and hardcore and do songwriterly real rock." they never forgot paul and afforded them opportunities and courtesies that, say, would not be extended to Mike Watt. but it would seem the advent of the Goo Goo Dolls showed what the future would be like if they were obedient and followed instructions.

I would argue that the last 2 Mats ablums both get torched by Hold Me Up the 2nd (I think) Goo Goo Dolls album on Metal Blade!

It's funny for a band that "wouldn't follow the industry's rules" they sure as fuck made Don't Tell a Soul & All Shook Down, both of which are slick major label albums

I mean even Pleased to Meet Me which still has a lot of great songs has the edges sanded off

I guess they acted pouty and passive aggressive about it after they did it but that ain't the same thing as not doing it in the first place

Also in 88-90 while the Replacments were making Don't Tell a Soul, Soul Asylum was making Hangtime and Horse They Rode In On which are both better IMO

well, is it not elementary that Johnny Rezenik however the fukk you spell his name is a big PW stan?…I had only heard of the Goo Goo Dolls til "Name" and that seemed like a transparent housebroken version of PW. and then he was prepared to be the Jon Bon Jovi of PW… like, Paul with amazing hair, dimples and go for broke production…

I wouldn't put Pirner in the same category, but yeah Soul Asylum were ready to go for the post-'92 gold rush when the mats were finished and there was a support structure built for 'em. Didn't Winona stalk PW? Like, he was the only one who resisted her that she set her sights on? she settled for Pirner.

Many of you know what I think of many slick '80s would-be sellouts – they're rarely as mediocre as received opinion demands – but Don't Tell a Soul strikes me as depressed and depressing.

depressed and depressing

exactly

And yet

a million xposts. i want to hear more on that, james redd.

xpost

Reznik was a total stan, Westerberg even wrote "We Are the Normal" for them (and maybe more) just saying at first they were a good rip, like the Rancid to the Clash or something...

Soul Asylum are more contemporaries, esp considering they did a few years as Loud Fast Rules

but early Goo Goo Dolls have some joints & a good energy (not putting them on the same level in any way)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0qFjTvau5E

I'd love it if they went back to the master tapes of Don't Tell a Soul and could somehow do a total remix/remaster job on that, start with the drums, probably some of the cheesy guitar tone shit was put to tape though :(

start with the drums, probably some of the cheesy guitar tone shit was put to tape though :(

Tacky
I guess that's where they're from

why the winona disdain; have y'all not seen heathers

Remember when Spin sent its staff around the country and searched the nation's back corners for the soul of rock and roll and settled on Westerberg?

Goo Goo Goo radio breakthrough was written by Westerberg. We are the Normal, iirc.

why the winona disdain; have y'all not seen heathers

Winona rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHsyYbxpGmk

Winona continued the MPLS rock tour with Kraig Johnson (Run Westy Run/Jayhawks) post-Pirner.

saw Goo Goo Dolls at what may have been first NYC gig (at CBGB!) w/out ever hearing them, just they "sound like the Replacements." Never made that mistake again. The fucking horror.

ums otm all over, obv.

nothing I said expressed any disdain for Winona…I would have done exactly what all those guys did should she have come calling…I only recently knew of the "manic pixie dream girl" thing: does she have anything to do with that?

winona was great in hbo's "show me a hero." (which used lots of springsteen music. which is the guy all those all-guard critics wished westerberg could be. but chris mars could never ever be max weinberg no matter how much they might've wished for that too.)

depressed and depressing

and?

Don't understand Paul as even a theoretical heartthrob. 'Mats excepting Tommy almost as ugly as Ramones semi-excepting Dee Dee.

ums otm all over, obv.

"sound like the Replacements." Never made that mistake again
Took me much longer than I'd care to admit to realize that "sounds just like INSERT YR FAV BAND'S NAME HERE" recommendations don't usually work out as planned.

i understand as a theoretical and actual heartthrob. ugh maybe i'm defensive about winona b/c we have the same terrible taste. except for instead of settling for dave pirner i settled for a guy w/ a blues traveler tattoo.

So, like Seymour Stein, you preferred Tommy?

Why I think DTAS is better than the soundalikes = none of these other guys had Westerberg as a songwriter

xpost me? meant paul.

Why I think DTAS is better than the soundalikes = none of these other guys had Westerberg as a songwriter

― Master of Treacle

"I'll Be You," "I Won't," fine -- the rest is OK or garbage.

Tried again to listen to that one, just couldn't make it to the end. The vibe he got into starting with ASD was much more fruitful, even if it doesn't reach the earlier heights.

I remember the exact moment I read that Winona was a Replacements fan because I was like ME TOO. I was in my backyard reading a magazine in a hammock. I've got enough distance to admit that PW was my imaginary dreamboat. He was cool and understood my problems :-/ I also invited Bob Stinson to live in my attic. I think I even posted my idle notebook doodles of the lettering on PTMM here years ago. Teenagers and their obsessions, no? Sorry Ma is still my favorite album of theirs but I can't really listen to any of them much. No band compared to this band has ever been remotely as appealing as this band was at the time.

Winona Ryder was really good in one of the better Jason Statham movies (which also features a great performance by Kate Bosworth - alongside, unfortunately, James Franco).

Xpost

omg was it sassy cuz I'm showing my age but that shit was formative

"I'll Be You," "I Won't," fine -- the rest is OK or garbage.

unbelievably wrong. "anywhere's better than here" alone