The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

song for song, i'd take every twin/tone album over every sire album, and it isn't all that close. and first two sire albums over last two sire albums.

the best songs on DTAS (Talent Show, I'll Be You, Achin to Be) overcome the production

Replacements are the most selectively liked band I can think of. When I bought Sorry Ma the record clerk told me, "That's their only good album."

Ha! I never listen to that one. And if I play Stink, it's only to hear "Go"

"Gary's Got A Boner" is harmless filler, but "Waitress In The Sky" is a blight on an otherwise perfect album (OK, maybe "Lay It Down Clown" could go, too)

"The most selectively liked"--yeah, this section of the thread's been proving it, like a Neil Young thread, or maybe even more so! Whatta band.
James, sorry I didn't warn yall about the Bob bummer in that excerpt, but I've read so much bad and worse re Bob that it didn't occur to me, I took it as a given.

Whole book's a Bob bummer; makes me wanna go back in time and hug/adopt him.

For me it's LIB > Hootenanny > the next two > the first two > the last two

For me it's LIB > Hootenanny > the next two > the first two > the last two

― dc, Saturday, 5 March 2016 01:02 (59 seconds ago) Permalink

LIB > Hootenanny > LIB & Tim > Sorry, Ma & Hootenanny > DTAS & ASD

?

aren't the next two albums after Hootenanny LIB and Tim (unless you're talking about Shit Hits...)?

Oh. Because I didn't clarify that "the next two" refers to the next two after the ones I named. But duh.

I think the 'bad production' criticism is overstated (not because it's wrong but because it's beside the point).

One of the reasons -- actually, the main reason -- I don't think the "bad production" gripes are overstated is the click-track. The tension of Mars playing ever-so-slightly ahead of the beat, and his subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) tempo variations, was one of their defining characteristics. Because he's shackled to the click-track, here are far too many moments on DTAS where it sounds like it could be anybody on drums, which is extremely disconcerting for a Replacements record.

dtas is a good record and all, it's just before that, they were the replacements

i'm new to these dudes but that 7th street set may be the best thing on youtube. i had been looking for any halfway decent footage of them. i can stop looking now.

song for song, i'd take every twin/tone album over every sire album, and it isn't all that close. and first two sire albums over last two sire albums.

/I think the 'bad production' criticism is overstated (not because it's wrong but because it's beside the point)./

One of the reasons -- actually, the main reason -- I don't think the "bad production" gripes are overstated is the click-track. The tension of Mars playing ever-so-slightly ahead of the beat, and his subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) tempo variations, was one of their defining characteristics. Because he's shackled to the click-track, here are far too many moments on DTAS where it sounds like it could be anybody on drums, which is extremely disconcerting for a Replacements record.

I third the above.

http://pitchfork.com/tv/15-docs/1640-the-making-of-trouble-boys-the-true-story-of-the-replacements/

Just got the book, burned through half of it in a day. It's comparable to Lewisohn's Beatles bio in its insanely thorough research, and in the sense that I can never hear the subjects' music the same way again (in a good way).

At this point, I'm going with Stink>every single other thing they ever did, and it's been that way for years. I'm pretty convinced that everyone in the world decided that Westerberg was the important guy, because he wrote the words and sang, but that ultimately Bob was literally the *only* reason why this band was important. I like a few things from the other three albums before they fell off a cliff, but there's really only one EP that holds up these days. I have Tim filed very closely with Daydream Nation in the file of bands-that-were-great-suddenly-blowing-it-in-every-way-and-getting-rewarded-for-it.

Production on Stink is killer, opening track is probably the best thing they ever did, Go is probably the worst thing on the EP and presages Paul's development as a guy who might appeal to Winona. It's like a band that was incredibly good at one thing being pushed to do another thing because their songwriter was cute and thought he had potential as an everyman's poet. Literally one of the bigger personality crises in indie rock history.

those last two post read very 'old ilm'

i mean obv that's yr opinion and that's cool but it's very dismissive of some really good tunes

It's more re-re-evaluative. I'm pretty sure I went back to Stink sometime in the 2010s (around the same time I realized that side 2 of Zen Arcade really is my favorite side).

All I know is that it's really hard to finish my book on dark money with this book sitting on the table staring at me.

I spent a lot of time trying to appreciate post LIB Replacements, because it seemed like the right thing to do. That in itself is probably a bad sign. They're a band that existed on the cusp of "you have no chance of ever being important" and "you will be a band for the ages" and I think that's rarely a good thing. I'm sort of afraid to read the book.

xp I immediately set aside My Anonia when it came in the mail. No regrets.

obv that's yr opinion and that's cool but it's very dismissive of some really good tune

i think there are some really good tunes on the first two sires, less so on the last two sires, but i think dlp is basically otm. i'm sure i've said this elsewhere in this thread, but the difference between bob and post-bob replacements is the difference between a four-piece band gelling in unpredictable, chaotic and beautiful ways and a singer-songwriter getting his tunes across in a really linear, functional manner. i think so much was lost musically.

also, not sure if this is the players' fault or the producers' fault, but bob's guitar tone >>>>> paul's guitar tone.

He's kind of otm except for the fact that "Go" is a great tune too.

I don't hate it, btw. Just think it points in the wrong direction for the band.

Hey, good looking here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_0HlOfBdI

Just as one example, was thinking about the line "17,18,19,21" from Stuck In The Middle, coming out of the guitar solo, and how completely brilliant that is. They lose the ability to do things like that pretty quickly.

I mean, "We are the sons of no one, bastards of young" vs. "17, 18, 19, 21" tells you a lot.

"Pirner was trying to be sexy" said his friend and West classmate Dave Roth. "Westerberg was trying to be working-class angry. Pirner was trying to get the chicks. It didn't seem like Westerberg was trying to do that"

that's a good line. and look where it got old dave... front row seats at the county fair bbq festival

It's "Wait on the sons of no one..."

Paul said that after he became a poet, but the recorded evidence is iffy...

fcc, like i said up thread i'm new to the replacements, so i'm under the impression that bob played up through tim at least is that an incorrect assumption? or are you just saying that after stink the production started to emphasize paul's song writing instead of bob's playing?

i like both but i can appreciate that perspective, especially as a johnny-come-lately who's perspective is, 'i heard these songs completely out of order and with no context whatsoever.'

nothin at all wrong with hearing songs out of order with no context. that's how i discover most bands.

tim was indeed the last album bob played on, though westerberg has suggested bob wasn't quite all there during those last sessions. but anyway, no, i'm saying i love 'em all the way through the twin/tone albums, and i still like 'em on tim and pleased but things are definitely shifting on those albums from band toward westerberg+friends. which is to say, i hung in there for a couple more albums than dlp did.

and for me it wasn't so much paul's songwriting vs. bob's playing as it was paul's songwriting vs. the entire band's playing.

paul on bob circa tim:

"Bob didn’t have a clue. He didn’t know the key of A from his left foot, so I’d sorta show him where to put his hands. ‘Just kinda start there, Bob.'”

Tommy Ramone said that Bob's contribution to the Tim sessions was showing up at the studio one day and improvising for few hours on tape, from which 'solos' were edited and placed into different tracks.

Also: those Charles Aaron Bob pieces (the one linked above and an obituary a couple years later) are so sad. One bit that stuck with me was a bit along the lines of how Aaron "...had always wanted to buy [Bob] a beer, but [I] finally got the chance, it became a six pack, a carton of cigarettes, a ride to the hardware store...and a $20 'loan'..."

ultimately Bob was literally the *only* reason why this band was important

come on man this is insane

Saying Stink is the best Replacements is like saying Land Speed Record is the best Husker Du record. Baby steps on the way to legitimate greatness.

Some of Stink seems like them trying to fit in with the hardcore punk scene

saw these guys play maybe 8x btwn '84-91, bought every album. I really don't feel like reading a book about em; it seems like i've heard all the stuff yer quoting already.

that's a good line. and look where it got old dave... front row seats at the county fair bbq festival

― hackshaw, Monday, March 7, 2016 9:44 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

got him rich & set for life with pads in mpls & new orleans, plus easy money gigs whenever he feels like it

xpost Haven't read the book yet, Morbs, but apparently it is revelatory.

westerberg just posted this (unreleased?) album from 2009
https://soundcloud.com/paul-westerberg/49-00

I got that from Amazon in '09. Not unreleased but quickly pulled.

The new book is absolutely essential and one of the best of its kind I've read. It does a very subtle job of interrogating the myth of the beautiful losers -- and why critics at the time especially liked them -- while not denying anybody their own story as much as possible. It's a story about a failure of 'society' in the broad sense to help people who need help as much as anything else, and it doesn't do so by identifying any obvious villain either.

otm