Indie Guilt: C/D

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question: damm now i'm confused, whats the difference betwien "Alternative", "Underground" and "Indie". i'v read somewhere that "Indie = british definition of Alternative" Like Weezer = "Alternative" and Blur = "Indie", though Non of them is "Underground". the definitions point to the same spot of "Artistic Freedom" but the geners somehow point to a totaly different directions which a lot of them don't express "Artistic Freedom" in any way.

― rex jr., Tuesday, 25 March 2003 14:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean is KrautRock "Underground"? it certainly wasn't mainstream but is "Underground" a gener anyway? Krautrock is mostly "Prog/Art/Avant-Garde" wich was underground at that time.

― rex jr., Tuesday, 25 March 2003 14:23 (twenty-three years ago)

no one ever had a hole cut in their throat for listening to slint

yet

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 14:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Whatever happened to that Missy Elliot anyway?

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 14:39 (twenty-three years ago)

She got like totally dissed on South Park, man

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 15:49 (twenty-three years ago)

speaking of fleeting affectations

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 16:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Almost every sensitive rock band gets the "Indie" tag. whats "Independant" or "Arty" about that? hehe.

Nate: not that i'm a big fan of the show but, is there realy an episode featuring Missy??

― rex jr., Tuesday, 25 March 2003 16:13 (twenty-three years ago)

indie should only be used in reference to distribution. indie = santa. it shouldn't exist as a genre. it maybe did at one point though. the legend of a kind thing went too far.

alternative = new wave. solely a marketing word used to get the records to the demographic. did anyone use the word alternative as a music genre before '90 or so?

underground is similar to indie. it's a state of availability, not style.

indie guilt is dumb... that's like feeling embarassed that you used to believe in santa claus. it's all about the giving. did you stop giving gifts or doing nice things for people during the holidays after the santa thing floated away? does it still rock? well then, there you go!

scarcity may create value... but not real value. only 500 copies of poo won't make poo any more special. likewise, 5 million copies of poo sounds more like a regional sewage system.
m.

― msp, Tuesday, 25 March 2003 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Sort of. The (mostly shitty) season premiere had a bit on a spaceship where some alien attempted to address the kids but needed to assume an unthreatening form to make communication easier (see "Contact"). Missy was one of the forms the kids objected to, as were Don King and Santa Claus and a few others. Finally they all agreed on Cartman's choice: a taco that craps ice cream.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 17:31 (twenty-three years ago)

i agree with almost everything you said msp, except for the term "underground", which sets up more of an oppositional dichotomy with implications of "being revolutionary" or "forced" underground etc -- none of which is necessarily true just because a band or a critic may use the term.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 17:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Nate: I was turned to the show by a friend who was a big fan. i was a realy big fan too when it came here but later got turned off by the later horrible writing. Matt Stone and Trey Parker, they can't write worth a shit! 'Thats My Bush' is probably the worst sitcom Evah, which says alot. having said that, i still watch south-park sometimes out of friday midnight boredom.

― rex jr., Tuesday, 25 March 2003 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, i think "Underground" is used to describe ideology rather then a gener of sound(VU,Sex Pistols,NWA,Minutemen,Public Enemy). Its totaly different from "Indie" wich is faulsly used to describe a gener of sound.

― rex jr., Tuesday, 25 March 2003 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)

jess this is all your fault

― Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)

i blame hstencil

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 19:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Indie == 60s pop played in an off-key by ex-punkers disguised as either Sonic Youth or ABBA.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 19:50 (twenty-three years ago)

nine months pass...

haha

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 8 January 2004 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I miss this thread. I wish it was started every day.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 8 January 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i have indie guilt for the same reasons i have white middle class male guilt.

it's all my parents fault.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I miss this thread. I wish it was started every day.

You mean it isn't?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

ah, simpler times.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

haha fiddo haha

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

now that Indie Rock is made with Splenda and Olestra, it's totally guilt-free.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

indie will come again, the sinners shall be punished, the faithful shall be er....still miserable.

― Moses (Ronan), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry gygax, I was not at all sober when I revived this.

...sorry gygax...

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

This is officially the stupidest ILM thread ever. "Indie guilt"?? WHAT the FUCK???

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 8 January 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, ethan's Pepsi Guilt accusation still makes me larf

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Friday, 9 January 2004 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread with the names and dates taken out and auto-summarized to 100 words:

apologetic about liking Indie music...? thread.

apologetic about liking Indie music...? thread.
haha your neighbour is indie!!

I like indie. Of, relating to, or being an indie: an album of indie rock; an indie film company.

cure for indie guilt:
So what's indie, then?

Hair Metal doesn't count= indie Pop

INDIE GUILT

alan = indie
-- indie hiphop. Today's pop is tomorrow's indie. not indie girls though. How indie is that?
WALLOW IN YOUR INDIE-NESS! PERPETRATE INDIE-SENT EXPOSURE!
the dandy warhols are indie?
How indie is that?!?
indie = santa. underground is similar to indie. "Indie guilt"??

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

yes.

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Three years is a long time.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

yes.

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"The Golden Age Is When You Were 12*"

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

for all intents and purposes, i was 12 in 2002.

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

the fleeting destiny's child/missy elliot affection of last year

This is the part uptop that amuses me the most.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

the weird thing is ethan really IS in an oingo-boingo covers band now!

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 27 February 2005 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I have no way of telling if you're kidding, Mark, but him living in London can do strange things to a man.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 February 2005 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread should end with a "Where are they now?" sequence.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 27 February 2005 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"dom, ned, marks p and s are still posting the indie guilt thread"

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 27 February 2005 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Woohoo!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 February 2005 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey mark s, thanks for linking to I Love Comics without warning us that you were sending us into a different dimension! (You don't expect me to actually read and find out what I'm posting to, do you?)

― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Sunday, 27 February 2005 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

oh my lord. three yars ago. i think i was actually drunk the night i was posting.

― nathalie barefoot in the head (stevie nixed), Sunday, 27 February 2005 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

six months pass...

I'm finally starting to understand this, I think.

Sterling's comment about feeling Palace was his own, private "special" thing that he couldn't share resonated with me, but for me the special thing was jazz. After a brief stint with classic rock, I was a jazz nerd for most of high school - I was a musician, and I was "serious". I also didn't even really know anything about punk or indie - they just weren't on the radar at my school.

Only in college, in my giddy days at the alt weekly, did I realize that post-rock was kinda like jazz and could be my special thing too, and so could old folk and blues records that were too scratchy-sounding for most people to ever like.

But the point is that, holed up in the office on a Friday night, I could happily wallow in my deep lonliness, appreciating what was going on in the new Paul Bley trio disc, seething at the athletic teams and the administration-ass-kissing daily paper, while the drunken whoops of frat brothers echoed in the distance. I certainly couldn't share my late 60s Miles Davis, my Sea and Cake, my Mississippi State Penitentiary songs with a woman, and I couldn't share much of anything else with a woman either.

Out in the world and away from college, into drab offices and co-habited apartments, we are ashamed of our private, special things. We want, understandably, to experience shared humanity, hence the oft-cited point that indie records don't sell and "nobody" listens to them (and you indie fuxors even think of yourselves as nobodies).

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

six months pass...

</wigga>!!!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 10 April 2006 15:55 (twenty years ago)

i'm just happy i finally know the tag to end wigga, my future posts will be much 'improved'

-- ethan (ethan...), May 29th, 2002.

lol

― ++++++, Monday, 10 April 2006 16:02 (twenty years ago)

back-back-back in the day.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 10 April 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

eleven months pass...

I'm shocked to see that the points I was making FIVE years ago, I was making last week in another place. I need to get some new ideas... And maybe finally get rid of my ind1e-gu1lt. ;-)

― byebyepride, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:08 (nineteen years ago)

It was downhill ever since. Slip sliding away.

― nathalie, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

I thought we did pretty well getting rid of it the other night! You said you liked the House of Love's version of Pink Frost better IIRC! (x-post).

― Keith, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

I do! But which is indier?

Also: are you on holiday today? How did the flooring go?

― byebyepride, Thursday, 5 April 2007 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

I certainly couldn't share my late 60s Miles Davis, my Sea and Cake, my Mississippi State Penitentiary songs with a woman, and I couldn't share much of anything else with a woman either.

but now you're married!

also, gygax RIP.
also, best thread ever.

― ian, Thursday, 5 April 2007 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

steve shasta lives

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 5 April 2007 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

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