Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

I was wrong upthread...the deluxe editions were issued years ago. listened to the paranoid and MoR unreleased tracks...'solitude' in particular is really great. so quiet. and 'Caravan' is six minutes...extended soloing and vibing at the end.

It was pretty great, though not as good as Lollapalooza. "After Forever" and "Under The Sun/Every Day Comes And Goes" were surprise deep cuts, but I'd rather have heard "Hole In The Sky," "Symptom of the Universe" or even "Supernaut." It's The End tour but they'll be back in September, if one of them doesn't croak before then (I hope not!).

http://sfist.com/2016/06/09/mcdonalds-themed_black_sabbath_cove.php

unrelated: did they ever find Ozzy?

Plenty of tickets available in the $75 range for the PNC Bank Arts Center show in NJ (August 23). Still haven't convinced myself to take the plunge.

So these have now all been reissued. It's the 2012 remaster, I understand. Jimmywine: are you sure the outtakes / alternate takes are worth it?

https://twitter.com/BlackSabbath/status/761645536449536001

LOOK-ING-FOR-TO-DAYYYYYYYYYY!!!

The supernaut opening drum motif is a take on Hayes’ Shaft. Or is it the other way around ?

Songs That Start With This Hi-Hat Pattern

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Thanks j

The s/t is 50 years old today and, by extension, metal as a whole.

Dayum

sabby birthday

greatest debut album?

Kory Grow's deep dive on the album from yesterday, interviewing all four band members and more folks besides, is essential

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/black-sabbath-debut-album-heavy-metal-origin-interview-949070/

xp hmm, there are a few other serious contenders from that era (including In the Court of the Crimson King), but it's definitely up there.

And thanks for the link, Ned, I only read the other RS piece about their not-so-tacit jazziness.

That hi hat / ride cymbal swing motif can also be heard on the Wheels of Confusion intro and that song also evidences his behind the beat playing during the verses

Further RS piece specifically about the cover art.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/black-sabbath-cover-art-keef-keith-macmillan-interview-951578/

Enjoyed reading both of those articles, thanks.

Great article on the cover art of those first four albums... what a run!

(...and man, did their covers go seriously downhill afterwards, lol)

https://i.ibb.co/31pkFxn/PVZP71581659249.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/7KJm0Mh/SNhb-C1581659570.jpg

Lol

Never Say Die album art is fantastic

Paranoid artwork is terrible

yeah it sucks shit but it's iconic shit, i can't imagine it with another cover

Bingo. That said, maybe the original album title, War Pigs would have offset its awfulness somewhat.

Nothing against Ward, I love the guy, but imagine someone with true jazz chops on those extended instrumentals on the first album

No I'm good

Huh? Ward is awesome.

One of my favorite lines of inquiry. Not.

Ward is like Ginger Baker if Ginger Baker were as good as Ginger Baker thought he was.

They both lack precision and chops, I don’t see the shame in admitting that. They have other strengths

I wouldn't want to hear Black Sabbath with Elvin Jones or Art Blakey on drums and neither would you.

Thinking about Sabbath with Hal Blaine on drums now and it's doing my head in

I wouldn't want to hear Black Sabbath with Elvin Jones or Art Blakey on drums and neither would you.

They both lack precision and chops, I don’t see the shame in admitting that. They have other strengths

― calstars, Sunday, February 23, 2020 8:36 PM bookmarkflaglink

The idea that Sabbath would be better with a jazz drummer is lol

I believe this kind of substitution thought experiment is often applied to one of Ozzy's favorite bands.

I mean, seriously, if I thought Bill Ward sucked I would say so, but he's great, not just for Sabbath, but, well, especially for Sabbath. "The Wizard" for life, and you want jazz, that song swiiiiiiings.

(Elvin would be cool, too, but only if they replaced everyone else with the line-up of Sharrock's "Ask the Ages.")

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

wtf dude

Man if only those Led Zepplelin albums had Michael Angelo Batio instead

Always thought Fun House would’ve sounded better with someone more like Victor Wooten on bass.

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

Sorry double post

Nothing against Ward, I love the guy, but imagine someone with true jazz chops on those extended instrumentals on the first album

This is one of the worst challops I've read on ILM, and I fucking love challops.

i guess technically it's a great challops, in that it is extremely challenging and requires you to re-examine your preconceptions

however, my preconceptions remain unchanged in this case because bill ward is a fucking monster and iommi/butler/ward are one of the greatest instrumental trios in rock

For maximum impact, said challop should have opened with ‘Nothing against Ozzy, I love the guy...’ Scat Sabbath ftw.

some people say my love, can it be true?
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