Deej, I realize that was a gut reaction on Dan's part, but there's no reason why the convictions behind that impulse shouldn't be explored.
(xpost)
― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene (R. J. Greene), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:00 (seventeen years ago) link
Calling these videos a minstrel show implies that there is something shameful about them....at your own self-revealing risk
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:00 (seventeen years ago) link
― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link
As long as we're talking about this, I'm amazed that the Blowfly thread escaped this kind of breakdown. His cachet among white folks seems WAAAAAY more suspicious to me...
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:09 (seventeen years ago) link
This is silly. Everyone gets so defensive when someone mentions that word. Its like, 'must...find...non...racist...footing.' "I'm not a racist, thats whats so insane about this." etc
I don't see why the audience's reaction isn't a legitimate part of a critique of an artist/piece of art. They're not seperate - or rather, they're not seperate when you're talking 'minstrelsy'. I can't really argue Dan's perspective because he didn't elucidate much beyond it but to me its entirely reasonable to be critical of R Kelly or the song because of the way that song is received. And incidently, "minstrel show" is about calling on a certain tradition that is tied in with racism. So its a pretty broad descriptor and people seem to respond to what they ASSUME he's saying. Welcome to america etc
Still, at this pt. TITC is bad and boring.
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:10 (seventeen years ago) link
One of the things said upthread was that people are pointing and laughing, saying Kelly is being 'unintentionally funny', and that this too is patronising. Neither my friends nor I know whether he knows what he's doing, but we debate it, and I really don't think that the people who claim it to be accidental are undermining the man whatsoever (whether he deserves to be undermined personally is a different issue).
Essentially, I may be missing something as a Britisher - some of the arguments seem to have revolved around US issues that I have no conception of - but the point is that this production is just great; the music works, the plot is hilarious and engaging, and I can't see one reason for people to not like it.
― emil.y (emil.y), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:16 (seventeen years ago) link
Exit, stage left...
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 11 January 2007 02:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 09:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― is anyone anticipating the new Baaderonixx? (baaderonixx), Thursday, 11 January 2007 09:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 13:00 (seventeen years ago) link
I called it a minstrel show because, in my opinion, the entire thing is playing up to and pandering to a particular image that can be encapsulated by the sentence "R. Kelly is one crazy nigga!" As I said earlier, you can go ahead and watch that if you want to but, personally, I think it's some bullshit that cannot be divorced from some extremely ugly racial overtones.
FIN
― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 January 2007 13:19 (seventeen years ago) link
pandering to a particular image that can be encapsulated by the sentence "R. Kelly is one crazy nigga!"
Yeah maybe. Hard to say. I'm drawn to R. Kelly because he seems to combine a very successful craftmanship, churning out strings of brilliant singles, as well as a sense of experimentation quite different from what's expected in the genre he's working in. I loved R. Kelly before TITC and I probably don't need to hear it again, but I still think it's pretty cool of him to try out stuff like that (and that he dresses up as Zorro for award shows).
― is anyone anticipating the new Baaderonixx? (baaderonixx), Thursday, 11 January 2007 13:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― EZ Snappin (EZSnappin), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link
x-post; and yes, I think that's part of the thing too. TITC does seem extraordinarily dumb, and the audaciousness of it's dumbness is what made me revive the thread. There's a midget in a cupboard having an affair with a policeman's wife?!
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:26 (seventeen years ago) link
Yes. And it's no big deal.
Plus, R. Kelly genuinely does seem to be one crazy ... ummm, R&B celebrity. This makes his "I'm so craaaaaazy!" schtick a lot easier to swallow.
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:10 (seventeen years ago) link
Who is Adam Beales?
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― is anyone anticipating the new Baaderonixx? (baaderonixx), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link
Hearing that in my head a la Mike Jones is not helping my sanity.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link
R. Kelly is obviously at least kinda/sorta crazy --the craziness being obvious for the reasons Mr. Sick Mouthy mentions above, among others. And his material is (again, obviously) rooted in a frankly stereotypical vision of black culture and the entertainer's role in that culture. Oh, and he's black. Am I allowed to admit that I noticed that?
So what? The appeal to his work as a whole is the craftsmanship, the pop genius, the genuine humor, the controversy, the lunacy and (yes, to some extent) the total obliviousness. It's universal.
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link
http://pajamasmedia.com/images/2006/02/Fingerpoint.jpg
― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:56 (seventeen years ago) link
Aaargh. I'm not saying that.
I am saying that it's reasonable to suggest that Kelly's not totally in control of his persona. If you don't think he comes off at least a little bit messed-up in a deep-down, genuine sense, that's cool. I'm not sure either way, but I think it's reasonable to have doubts about who he is and what he imagines he's up to.
And even if you read it as ENTIRELY self-aware meta-comedy, TITC is pretty blatantly chowderheaded. Again, that's fine. Recognizing that something is kinda dumb shouldn't prevent you from enjoying it.
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:38 (seventeen years ago) link
We had to sing "I Believe I Can Fly" at 8th grade graduation
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― max (maxreax), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:32 (seventeen years ago) link
Makes you thirst for some New Critics to come along and tell us to judge the work completely on the basis of the text, and ignore the bloody artist.
― Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Thursday, 11 January 2007 19:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 January 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 January 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 11 January 2007 20:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link
...
― cheesesteak and shake (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 11 January 2007 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Ultimate Conclusion (lokar), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Ultimate Conclusion (lokar), Monday, 15 January 2007 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― mister the guanoman (mister the guanoman), Monday, 15 January 2007 17:25 (seventeen years ago) link
Um, so I just saw a commercial on IFC "10 brand new chapters on DVD in stores August 21st" and they're playing it on the channel on the 13th.
http://ifc.com/static/sections/kelly/trapped.html
― marmotwolof, Sunday, 5 August 2007 09:05 (sixteen years ago) link