Is THE LODGER David Bowie's best record?

I like how 'Boys Keep Swinging' is exactly the same chords as 'Fantastic Voyage', but with everyone on the "wrong" instruments and a different topline.

Long time ago, I thought it was John Lennon doing the "waiting so long, I've been waiting so long" vocals on Don't Look Back.

xpost yes and they are pretty simple chords. it's all a lot of open A's and E's and D's and G's. nothing really fancy. these are his punk records, pretty much. just really simple straight-ahead songs that have been altered and skewed.

Scary Monsters always has seemed to get higher praise than Lodger, but I think Lodger is a far more consistent record. I always felt Scary Monsters dropped off a little on side 2.

Long time ago, I thought it was John Lennon doing the "waiting so long, I've been waiting so long" vocals on Don't Look Back.

― pplains

I've always thought they sound like George Harrison!

xpost Maybe, but that's because side one has Up the Hill, Fashion, Ashes to Ashes, Scary Monsters and It's No Game!

scary monsters is my total favorite bowie but even i admit side 2 has a bit of sag. But only a bit.

please keep discussion of inferior albums by The David Bowie off the "The Lodger" thread please

foiled by mark's interrogative thread title

David the Bowie

Scary Monsters always has seemed to get higher praise than Lodger, but I think Lodger is a far more consistent record. I always felt Scary Monsters dropped off a little on side 2.

― Turrican

the second side of SM is Bowie writing and singing to match Fripp's guitar and uh

I've always thought they sound like George Harrison!

– chap

Ha, probably a little more accurate. Maybe was thinking of John because of "Fame".

the "waiting so long" bit always reminded me of the "please don't be long" chorus in the Beatles' Blue Jay Way, so someone thinking it was Harrison makes sense to me.

I usually am!

Reading Strange Facination by David Buckley (Alfred - I think you recommended this in another Bowie thread?) and he alludes to lots of material going unreleased that may see the light of day upon Bowie's passing.

"I Pray, Ole" is on the Ryko reissue I have from those sessions which is a pretty solid cut.

Perhaps a re-annexation strategy like you say, but still, there's something about the way he sings "Project cancelled" and then the way he overdubs the "Re-e-e-e-e-d" part that thrills me. Mmm...think I'll have to listen to this tomorrow!

Every revive makes this album sound more and mire like the greatest album ever! :D

the ryko bonus tracks are all absolutely necessary. I Pray Ole is so good; forgot it wasn't even on the album proper.

I'm currently annoyed with the me of 15 years ago who bought this on vinyl and had a reaction roughly similar to the initial critical response ("Meh..."). I just had to grow into it, I guess.

African night flight is like dead on late 70s Pere Ubu right down to the heckling synth

I wasn't into Lodger when I first heard it in 1991. I adored everything up through Station To Station (except Diamond Dogs, which I need to revisit) (and Pin-Ups), but the songs on the Berlin trilogy left me cold, with a handful of exceptions.

I'm listening to Lodger right now for the fifth time this week, and the first time without headphones. There isn't anything here that I don't love, and I feel like there's still a lot more to dig into.

Here's Greil Marcus' review, whose introduction is intelligent and worth savoring. But the judgment is wrong.

Bowie's antinarrative lyrics, his antihero stance, his dependence on sounds and words that are suggestive rather than explicit, and his playing of banal surfaces against textures of real depth all speak for a future-in-the-present in which one must protect oneself from the world, from other people and from one's own visions, desires and fears — while at the same time giving all of those things form and weight. What is defined is the nature of the distance involved, its necessity and its risks. This is an aesthetic that, when it works, combines a retreat into art with an affirmation of the world one has retreated from; it's an aesthetic that holds life in reserve, and to hear it in action can be transporting. But on Lodger, save for "Move On," Bowie seems less than interested, neither a serious savior nor a serious aesthete. It's as if the role of savior now bores him, and thus — paradoxically, one would have thought years ago — leaves him without the energy to pursue his life as an aesthete with the intensity it demands. That's disturbing, because for David Bowie, life as an aesthete is not a role at all.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/lodger-19790809

It's as if the role of savior now bores him

Yeah, I don't get this impression at all, but I can almost understand how Marcus came to that conclusion at the time in the context of Bowie's work, given the giddiness with which Ziggy presented himself as a savior.

banal surfaces

This probably isn't what Marcus was aiming at, but the drum sound on Lodger is one of the worst/least effective in Bowie's catalog (which I now realize is probably why it took me 25 years to get into it).

^That assertion rings strange to me, since it was the drumming on Red Sails and Anger which originally converted me

It lacks a certain presence for me. The drumming itself is wonderful, but the recording defaults to the standard flumpfy studio techniques of the day, rather than exploring alternative techniques (like on Low, by far my favorite Bowie drum sound).

(and I learned yesterday that Dennis Davis studied with Max Roach and Elvin Jones, which is pretty amazing.)

"Fantastic Voyage" must be one of the best tracks ever.

This is one of the all-time great threads on ILM. However, it drives me crazy that this thread title incorrectly adds the definite article to the album title. It's just Lodger.

that THE is the worst microsecond's work i ever did on the borad, trufax

my original vinyl pressing had a massive CLICK during the quiet part of FY.
so, i took it back.
second version : same thing.
so i came to accept it.
fast forward many many years.
i get the cd remasters.
the absence of the CLICK felt weird.
i my head i still hear the CLICK.

I find the THE a great touch

Fantastic Voyage a hard act to follow imo

+1

I love the vocal on 'Fantastic Voyage'

i love lodger. i also love bts and shearwater now, the first because their song in the 90s loved lodger, and the latter because they are now fucking awesome and fucking awesome at loving lodger

(also makes me a little sad b/c i found the 1940 us census, which describes my then 10 y/o kentucky-born mom, living with friends of family, as "Lodger.") end of how lodger owns me.

Some days I listen to 'Look Back In Anger' and think to myself "shit, this really was the best rhythm section Bowie ever had."

it turns out that tony v has remixed lodger for release in a bit.

not sure how i feel about this as i genuinely think its a perfect album.

its supposedly a very subtle remix, but still ...

I'd need more details but I'm pretty sure that a remix isn't necessary.

According to the liner notes Bowie heard and emphatically approved at least three tracks, it doesn't actually say if he lived to hear the rest, they were working on Blackstar at roughly the same time.

Also it seems like it's not a completely radical remix but not exactly a subtle tweak either.

Actually thinking about it, Lodger is probably the Bowie album that's aged the best.

Actually thinking about it, Lodger is probably the Bowie album that's aged the best.

i have never had to think about it.
and yeah, its supposed to be a subtle touch up i.e. remove some of the clutter
but ... i like the clutter.
its the clutter that makes the album different and brilliant.

Otm

fantastic voyage is one of the best bowie songs ever

For some reason, I don't think this is really a good idea, although it's kinda well known that Visconti has always been dissatisfied with the way that Lodger turned out. Of course, I'm going to listen to it and A-B it as much as any Bowie fan will, but I don't think re-working it is necessary.

If there's any Bowie album I'd like to see re-mixed/re-worked, it's probably hours...

'Fantastic Voyage' has fucked me up every time I've heard it since November. Feels way too on-the-nose.

Yeah, it's definitely one that's had a lot of power recently... particularly over the last couple of years!

It was mentioned just upthread, but in case anyone missed it, Shearwater have done a great cover of the whole album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk4Z7OhpXyw&list=PLbbmBIT_TF6njuC-2IbUiBxom8UxKJdLv

Sorry, that didn't seem to work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk4Z7OhpXyw

Iirc The band said they had been planning to include a song by song cover of Lodger in their set during their last tour before Bowie died, which is crazy.

Yeah that's how it went.

Goddamn anagram, thanks for sharing that. Never heard any Shearwater - that performance is really really impressive
They're clearly having a blast doing it. Goosebumps.

New Visconti remix of Lodger on the A New Career In A New Town box is a revealing curio, as these things usually are - Eno backing vox on "African Night Flight" are particularly interesting...

But man, "Red Sails" done got ruined.