Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

Actually the most annoying thing about that Morrissey article *is* the "ZOMG he's never heard of this minor Bowie song that is a cornerstone of my myopic and reductivist view of 'our culture'" nonsense.

Does a German equivalent of East Ham exist, incidentally? I'm pretty sure a French one does. Is it possible that they just don't see it because they NEVER GO THERE, in the same way that hardly anyone goes to East Ham by choice, especially tourists?

(OK the NME has a similarly myopic and reductivist view so maybe Tim Jonze hasn't been doing his homework but still...)

East Berlin?

Jonze is supposed to be an NME writer though? You'd expect him to at least recognise the song title as being one of Bowie's, as in it being indicative of a general interest in/knowledge of music? (lol i am old old old/lol music writing in '07 "who is capt. beefhreat" (c) teh lex etc etc)

I've stayed in the suburbs of Berlin and Stockholm where the majority of people are immigrants, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't correspond to Morrisey's conservative ideals of Germany and Sweden.

Who the fuck finds themselves liking the Smiths _more_ as they leave their teen years?

I didn't like The Smiths at all back then. They were underground rock, and I was exclusively into pop (you know, English synthpop, the kind that was popular back then).
I am no big fan today either (still consider Johnny Marr an overrated composer that relied way too much on improvisation to write good melodies), but like them considerably better now than I did back then. Gene >> The Smiths though. :)

There's an emoticon I think we can all get behind

I'm unpersuaded that pining for a lost England that existed (or perhaps didn't) before mass immigration is necessarily racist.

The Smiths #2 Mar 1984
Hatful Of Hollow #7 Nov 1984
Meat Is Murder #1 Feb 1985
The Queen Is Dead #2 Jun 1986
The World Won't Listen #2 Mar 1987
Strangeways, Here We Come #2 Oct 1987
#2 Sep 1988
Best of The Smiths #1 Aug 1992

Underground.

They weren't that big a deal anywhere outside the UK though.

The assumption that the uk was in fact some kind of whites only zone at any time in living memory is false anyway, see:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=south+shields+race+riot&meta=&btnG=Google+Search

Reading the Tim Jonze blog piece it actually accuses Morrissey of using racially inflammatory language which is true. Where is this England that has supposedly disappeared anyway?

Go out to a medium-sized town in Dorset, go to the Lake District, walk down Canterbury High Street, hell even the High Street in some dull middle ranking English town like Swindon and tell me you could be in any other country in the world. It's bollocks, and you have to cast aspersions on the kind of thought processes that lead to such statements, particularly among people who don't even live here.

That's middle class though. But I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of typical laddish English working class culture left if you walk around Camden Town too.

Delete ILX

Strange as it may seem, working class people also live in towns in England.

xpost

http://www.mattscdsingles.com/acatalog/15873.jpg

In Norway they did away with geography textbooks and just gave every pupil a copy of this single.

I momentarily read that url as matt dc singles dot com and was all WTF for a second.

Ah come on, Geir doesn't know Camden, why should he?

Because he's talking about it?

Geir talking about things he's not sure about is not a new thing.

that dave simpson guy who keeps splitting heirs about how morrisey couldnt possibly be racist because racism and immigration DONT EVER OVERLAP OF COURSE in the guardian comments section is really annoying. not that hes the only one of course, but hes also a guardian writer so its more annoying.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/artsblog/authorpics/dave_simpson.jpg

I gotta cut a shoot here, but if I was blogging for a major website and had to have a byline photo, I'd get myself down Venture and have some shots taken there for £60.

Yeah, Manzoor's piece is v good.

And got to say there are some real zings in Moz's piece.

does anyone know if 'asian rut' on kill uncle was written as something of a response to some of the stick he got for 'bengali in platforms'?

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/12/morrissey_responds.html

I am writing this to apologize unreservedly for granting an interview to the NME. I had no reason whatsoever to assume that they could be anything other than devious, truculent and unreliable. In the event, they have proven to be all three.

Hmmmm. I've heard someone described as that before....

They weren't that big a deal anywhere outside the UK though.

except in the small village hamlets of Los Angeles, New York, and Latin America

The real reason for people not knowing DRIVE-IN SATURDAY these days (despite it being a number 2 hit and bigger than GOLDEN YEARS, SOUND AND VISION, HEROES or FASHION) is a trickle down from the fact that it wasn't on CHANGESoneBOWIE the big hits comp from the mid seventies. It was then as a result not included as the big Ryko CHANGES hits cd in the early 90's.

Just sayin'.

I'm unpersuaded that pining for a lost England that existed (or perhaps didn't) before mass immigration is necessarily racist.

-- Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, December 4, 2007 7:20 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

^^^^this is the only thing that needs to be said here. that and Dom's a moron.

the darkies are always ruining everything, i agree with morrissey on that one, its impossible not to really, but i still dont see how immigrants are responsible for changing england more than things like globalisation, americanisation, devolution, privatisation etc etc. granted, some of these things are being implemented and aided by the aforementioned people of a shall we say dustier hue, but even so, it would be silly to attribute all those changes that have swept the uk in the last decade to them exclusively (we shouldnt feel the need to overlook their role in it though, naturally).

hang on am i missing levels of irony here

Trying way too hard xp

thanks for the constructive criticism.

How the fuck does devolution change England?

Fair play to Moz and his fans tho, usually when you hear somebody moaning about "our" culture being "diluted" there is no racist subtext whatsoever.

I'm unpersuaded that pining for a lost England that existed (or perhaps didn't) before mass immigration is necessarily racist.

The strong correlation between his views and those of more logical, consistent racists is merely suspicious and not enough to convict him.

But let's not pretend he has views that are anything other than dodgy even if it isn't classic racism, and we can pedantically point out that he isn't technically a racist.

Like Douglas P from Death in June and his gay nazi shtick (and there's a collaboration Moz should probably avoid heh!) it doesn't have to be logically consistent to suck.

it doesn't have to be logically consistent to suck.

im sure that will not hold up in court

except in the small village hamlets of Los Angeles, New York, and Latin America

How big were the Smiths in these places? (I genuinely don't know and am curious, though I'd be surprised if they were big in NY[C, I can only assume] like they were in the UK. BTW I really liked your comments on the Kansas thread, J0hn. I meant to reply at some point.)

The real reason for people not knowing DRIVE-IN SATURDAY these days (despite it being a number 2 hit and bigger than GOLDEN YEARS, SOUND AND VISION, HEROES or FASHION) is a trickle down from the fact that it wasn't on CHANGESoneBOWIE the big hits comp from the mid seventies. It was then as a result not included as the big Ryko CHANGES hits cd in the early 90's.

An NME writer, supposedly their "best" according to their probably misguided author, is not the man on the street, mind you. Just because John Smith isn't familiar with one of Bowie's most famous 70s songs doesn't mean it's OK that NME's so-called "best" writer is.

But I guess it's just typical of NME's general detoriation. NME has spent the past 20 years being pathetic. It did have a clue during Britpop's heyday, but only for a few months before going clueless again.

Smiths were huge in SoCal. At least huge enough for 13-yo me to be aware of them and hear them on the radio (viva 91x)

A supposed music writer who knows nothing about David Bowie is still not worth paying attention to.

-- Geir Hongro, Tuesday, December 4, 2007 11:13 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

does *every* thread have to be about the lex? he left, no?

Did he?

Nah, he now posts as "titchysneidermk2"

i think morrissey did pwn jonze and nme pretty well. the dishing on jonze is especially funny.

Jonze pwned, NME not so much.

"Nah, he now posts as "titchysneidermk2"

not one of your better zings. try harder.

i think morrissey did pwn jonze and nme pretty well. the dishing on jonze is especially funny.

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 10:27 (4 hours ago) Link

Yes. Jonze is a snotty little kid, who knows more about political correctness than music, which is a great thing, especially if you're a music journo.

IT'S POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD

Give Ireland Back To The Irish!

ban zeus