Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

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you don't even like "everyone's gone to the movies" edward?

― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 19:43 (twenty years ago)

Katy Lied was my first Dan album, and it was "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" (perfectly evokes shag carpeted basement porn screenings) and "Dr. Wu" that sold me on 'em.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 19:49 (twenty years ago)

It seems like the Dan are a microcosmic case for why one (dis)/likes music: when one doesn't get them it's about extramusical feelings, or feelings that aren't purely objective: people dislike them because of the associations they make with their sound. And maybe that's what all music fandom is: not some imaginary recognition that a set of notes or a style of playing are good, but an emotional attachment to what we think a band are doing. We all like to think we love stuff cos of its objective greatness, but we know deep down that all there is is a shout out to our own subconsciousnesses. And if Steely Dan make that obvious situation more obvious, it's because their sound is super-unfashionable, at least inasmuch as fashion ties itself to authenticity and "soul" and all those other words that don't seem, to the people that use them most, to need explaining. But the Dan abide, oblivious to that way of thinking, even calling out that way of thinking, not in any "we're smarter than you" way but by dint of the beautifulness of what they've done, the fact that they've made emotionally jolting music out of cynicism and artifice and remove...and yet that isn't all that their music is, because they make those dumb binaries look as dumb as they are. And there's no necessity to love them, but they do kind of require that you give up some of your extramusical prejudices, maybe. Which you don't have to do, which won't make you a better person, which doesn't fucking matter in the big scheme of things, but like all BIG artists they give you this challenge to open up yourself, just a little bit, and adopt uncomfortable (but potentially gorgeous) new perspectives.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 20:54 (twenty years ago)

Or alternatively, you could just have been a kid in the 70s hearing "Rikki Don't Lose that Nummber" on the beach (and hearing it as basically a sweet song) and hearing "Peg" on the car radio on the way home (and hearing it is a bright catchy pop song) while pleasantly exhausted, with sand still stuck in your bathing suit, and mostly take Steely Dan on those terms.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:13 (twenty years ago)

But I kind of tried to include that reading in what I was saying, R. My Steely love starts with "Reelin' in the Years" on the radio in the car as a kid in the 70s.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:15 (twenty years ago)

I like Rikki just fine, but the fact that I like "Radar Love" doesn't mean that I'm going to profess any deep abiding affection for Golden Earring. Further, I'd flip Noodle's statement— I have no real representational problem with SD, but most of the defenses here have associational justification for why they like SD. See Rockist above.

― js (honestengine), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:24 (twenty years ago)

I've got no such associations - I never heard the Dan as a kid.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:25 (twenty years ago)

js you're right and I didn't express that clearly: I don't think Dan are victims of extramusical prejudice, I think they work as a good test-case for all of our love of music having extramusical elements.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:28 (twenty years ago)

but most of the defenses here have associational justification for why they like SD

There have been other types of defenses given before, however (on other threads). My point was more that the punk vs. SD or the "but they are just coke-addled smooth jazz cynics" problem some people seem to have doesn't exist for me, and it's no stretch at all for me to like at least a lot of their songs. I liked them when I was a kid, so there must have been some non-nostalgic reason (and I didn't automatically like every single song I heard on the beach or on the car radio on the way home, but that did heighten the experience of hearing songs sometimes).

A lot of their songs are just crazily hooky, melodically great, and that sort of thing.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:32 (twenty years ago)

(I know it's lame to always make excuses here but I am getting ready to move--tomorrow!--and my brain is pretty fried. I should not be online at all WTF I should be packing a few last things.)

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:34 (twenty years ago)

pack not your dan, for they should be your shield as you venture out

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:36 (twenty years ago)

A lot of their songs are just crazily hooky, melodically great, and that sort of thing.

Word to that.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:37 (twenty years ago)

melodically great

Geir?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:39 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, let's just treat melody as the stepchild of music in typical ILM hive mind fashion!

:-)

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:41 (twenty years ago)

Let's dance!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:43 (twenty years ago)

I mean, I've always liked Steely Dan -- their proficient 70s AM slickness made me embarrassed to like them for a little while, since that sort of thing didn't seem too cool, but it was never a stumbling block to the actual visceral appreciation of the music itself.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:46 (twenty years ago)

I've been listening to my main reggaeton mix actually.

x-post:

Maybe there would have been a brief period of time when I would have been embarrassed to like them, but I don't think I paid any attention to them during that phase of my life.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:48 (twenty years ago)

I worked at a Bob's when I was a tender high school lad, and "Reelin' in the Years" was on our in-store radio.

My friend Justin is always telling me to listen to Aja.

This seems like a really happ'nin thread.

― M. Biondi (M. Biondi), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:48 (twenty years ago)

Seems like most of the Dan-directed vitriol (it's Muzak and slick... as if these were vices, but whatever) is directed at their post-Royal Scam work. Anyone who claims that SD, from Can't Buy A Thrill thru Katy Lied, didn't rawk in the most basic manner is deaf or, simply, full of shit.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:52 (twenty years ago)

"the fact that they've made emotionally jolting music out of cynicism and artifice and remove...and yet that isn't all that their music is, because they make those dumb binaries look as dumb as they are." this is rough, but - i've always thought of sd as men's camp which appealed to me in the same way but more personally than the camp i encountered must later i guess w/ gay culture.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:53 (twenty years ago)

also funny b/c the first time i heard it was in the auto section of sears at like 8 or so??. it was like being transported/released from THAT world of no frills and obvious meanings no interest in metaphors or whatever, but had a connection to it as well. i remember wondering what those guys were getting from it-why they thought it was cool/if they thought it was cool. and how you could enjoy it on so many levels..as witnessed here. but of course i thought mine was the right way!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:00 (twenty years ago)

Susan, you've touched on something I don't have the space or time to expand on. If by "male camp" you mean a slightly exaggerated machismo that's at the same feasting upon itself, then I definitely feel this sensibility in SD's work.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:04 (twenty years ago)

Like Dylan. Another artist that some people who listen to a lot of music can have a hard time liking. I didn't fall in love with Dylan until later in life. Same with Steely Dan. I always liked their songs on the radio, but I didn't start freaking out about them till my mid-20's.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:18 (twenty years ago)

that's part of it. and just how they take serious old institutions? in new non-good ol' boyish directions and give stylized/hyper-dramatized treatments. its in the lyrics and the music and the way he sings. like i don't think its pop informed by jazz etc. but more the other way around. and isn't he always talking about being at some Ivy League school in this ridiculous NY nasal accent and perfect straight love w/ extreme archetypes of femaleness and you feel like you're in the 50's/60's? but its totally nuts. i'm not really doing this justice, but -

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:22 (twenty years ago)

xpost!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:22 (twenty years ago)

Lynch Ian, yeah? Or a variation of the same thing - they have their cake and eat it, making beautiful pop that niggles at and reaffirms your belief in beautiful pop all at once.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:25 (twenty years ago)

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (soto.alfre...), Today.

susan douglas = steely dan

― lf (lfam), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:26 (twenty years ago)

ha!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:30 (twenty years ago)

OTM :(

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:31 (twenty years ago)

haha

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:38 (twenty years ago)

the wider implications of this are really depressing me. fuck you ilm.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:46 (twenty years ago)

What are trax where SD "rawk in the most basic manner?" If you tell me "Reelin' in the Years," I'm gonna think it's only because of the lead guitar.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:49 (twenty years ago)

"It" being the reason yer telling me this ...

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:50 (twenty years ago)

"Midnight Cruiser" rocks pretty hard.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:50 (twenty years ago)

But I don't know the albums! I hear "Reelin' in the Years" on the radio and I think it sounds like America w/ a little bit of a Thin Lizzy groove.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:51 (twenty years ago)

so does "Change of the Guard". And "Black Friday".

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:51 (twenty years ago)

x post

You say that like it's a bad thing, Tim.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:53 (twenty years ago)

Do you guys like America, too?

x-post!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:53 (twenty years ago)

I don't know any America. I don't know what Steely Dan songs you might know cuz I don't listen to the radio - I don't even really know what their "hits" were (apart from "Reelin" and "Rikki").

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:55 (twenty years ago)

'don't take me alive' rocks hard

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:59 (twenty years ago)

America are the group that did "Ventura Highway" and "Horse with No Name" and "Sister Golden Hair" and stuff. DO U GUYS LIKE DEM?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 23:00 (twenty years ago)

I guess I've heard Horse With No Name on Freedom Rock commercials. Never really thought about it much.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 23:03 (twenty years ago)

I don't know much more than "Hoss with No Name", but what's not to like?

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 23:04 (twenty years ago)

"Bodhisattva" rocks a lot. "Parker's Band" rocks. Uh, "Show Biz Kids"? "Sign In Stranger"? Not very America-like.

― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 23:04 (twenty years ago)

"what's not to like?"

I actually like America OK. I was just wondering if coolio SD fans liked 'em or if they just weren't jazz fusion enough? (I AM JOKING AROUND!)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 23:16 (twenty years ago)

How come none of you except noodle vague posted to this thread?

― In The Court Of The Redd King Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 23:52 (twenty years ago)

I LOVE "Ventura Highway."

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 00:37 (twenty years ago)

i like "Ventura Highway" too.

Do Dan or rather solo Fagen lovers generally like Joe Jackson? (cringe..tho i can get into it at times)

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 01:32 (twenty years ago)

Countdown to Ecstasy rocks in a pleasantly medium-weight way. Cynicism is fun and all, but the way the line "Drive down on Sunset / to the sea" ushers in, is just plan beautiful.

― Le Baaderonixx de Benedict Canyon (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 07:25 (twenty years ago)

I've decided my resistance to Steely Dan is rooted in their jazziness. That is, they are not jazz, they are jazzy, which is like the difference between truth and truthiness. Maybe this is deeply psychological, rooted in my fucked-up 70s childhood - though I don't experience the same recoiling when listening to such 70s staples as "You'll Never Find Another Love Like Mine", "Spooky", Isaac Hayes, disco, etc. When I hear "Reeling in the Years" or "Rikki Don't Lose That Number" I want to put a bullet in my head to extinguish the flood of leisure-suited-white-man's-overbite imagery.

As far as catchy goes, one listen to Fagan's "New Frontier" yesterday got lodged in my head with greater insistence than 4 listens to the entirety of Katy Lied. Ian, "Everyone's Gone To The Movies" is not bad per se, it's just not something I'd care if I ever heard again. Today I have continued my forced immersion in Katy Lied in an attempt to overcome my aesthetic revulsion and maybe see what everybody else is seeing, but it's still hard going. If there is no progress by the end of this week I'll probably move on to Countdown to Ecstasy.

re: America, paraphrased Tom Waits quote: "'Old man, look at my life, I'm a lot like you were', see that's a great lyric. Now, 'I rode through a desert on a horse with no name' - what the hell does that mean?"

― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 15:09 (twenty years ago)

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