Justin Bieber

also i wouldn't discount the fact that he became a tabloid fixture in between the two records. more interest in his celebrity is going to generate interest in his music even amongst ostensible critics (this same principle applies to rihanna becoming a huge concern among tastemakers on the internet despite releasing like 3 songs in the last two years)

iirc people were hyped abt boyfriend at the time but believe was kind of a disappointment and

i don't think it has anything to do with his age. teen pop stars who successfully become adult pop stars are outliers we just all collectively forget about the ones who don't, like it's not a general trend for people to positively critically reevaluate like willa ford or whoever when they reach 21

also *lifts cloth off lex ears* new biebs... sounds different? i liked some of old-biebs singles but new shit is miles ahead of all but the best of his past output \o/

*and killed the momentum

teen pop stars who successfully become adult pop stars are outliers we just all collectively forget about the ones who don't, like it's not a general trend for people to positively critically reevaluate like willa ford or whoever when they reach 21

most teen pop stars look at the odds and cash out without even bothering trying to become an adult pop star - cuz the road is brutal and the rewards are not clear. If you've already made millions by the time yr 21, why not take yr ball and go home and do something else (as most do?) The outliers are either those who really deeply crave artistic credibility or are psychotically narcissistic enough that they crave pop-star levels of fame/attention and can't envision existing without it.

... or are attempting to pursue careers in their chosen profession by following the avenue where they've so far had the most success?

I mean, I hate Bieber to death but this is like saying that Bill Gates is a raging narcissist for continuing to pursue a career in software after selling DOS to IBM.

don't really hear anything more interesting or less pandering in the new songs' production than say "as long as you love me" which is a pretty high peak in his discography, or several other tracks on believe

had to go listen to 'as long as you love me' but that pop-dubstep thing (with the Skrillex-esque drums, ironically) definitely reads as less 'mature' than the new tracks.

xp

i don't think it's true at all that most teen pop stars elect to not pursue fame, some of them just wash out

sure, there's a range of responses/reasons

xp

... or are attempting to pursue careers in their chosen profession by following the avenue where they've so far had the most success?

also yeah of course this happens but their are plenty of careers in music that do not involve being a huge adult pop star. I do think you have to be kind of insane to want Bieber-levels of fame tbh.

i like your rational expectations theory of teen pop stars shakey. bieber will successfully transition to adult pop star because if he wouldn't have succeeded he wouldn't have tried

it all makes sense

but seriously... Bieber's obviously committed to trying to make that transition, he's investing a lot in making that happen, he's still in the tabloids, his range of collaborators is expanding = adults will now start paying attention to him. If he doesn't convince as an adult he will bomb, if he does then he's probably on safe ground for the next 5+ years or so.

i would love to see a list of ten teen pop star singers who stopped of their own volition to continue on productively in another field.

and marie curie doesn't count

what do you mean by "of their own volition"

like NKOTB gave up after "Face the Music", does that count? They obviously realized they weren't going to make the transition and "pursued other interests"

Cassidy produces TV now apparently

random dudes in boy bands realizing they can't be solo pop stars does not count, and anyway both jordan knight and joey mcintyre pursued solo pop careers

random dudes in boy bands realizing they can't be solo pop stars does not count

why not?

it's very easy to "choose" to not to be famous when the choice is already made for you

ok but there's a difference in attempting to buck that judgment (like, say, Tiffany) and just giving up (like, say, Fabian)

some people read the writing on the wall and take their cash and go home, others persist in bangin their head against that wall

other people do this I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynda_Thomas

1. Fabian
2. Lynda
3. ?

you really want that list eh. well if we can include boy-band members it's pretty easy to fill out

i'd like to clarify: i don't really want that list. it's okay.

'journals' was worse than this stuff bc he was doing more straight-ahead R&B instead of R&B pop and his voice is terrible for that sort of thing

he can get by on lite rhythmically nimble records but is not so good at conveying passion thru strength of vocal performance

i think the looser rhythms of this faux-tropical and actually tropical stuff complements his strengths very well for that reason actually

he can get by on lite rhythmically nimble records but is not so good at conveying passion thru strength of vocal performance

i agree on the latter which is why i don't think they work as well - they're quite understated production-wise and his vocal is pretty foregrounded, and he doesn't sell any of the songs especially well

he basically needs huge-sounding production ("as long as you love me") that makes him a cog in the machine

No I'm talking about why journals doesn't work ... On "what do you mean" his vocals are light as a feather, there's no sense of him over singing or reaching for some big dramatic r&b display

oh i was still talking about believe, never heard journals

light as a feather is part of the problem, he doesn't overreach and fail but there's not much there - undersinging when you can't get the nuances right is also an issue

Journals remains dope. Biebz just wasn't part of the conversation back then. There was no narrative to sell it.

he basically needs huge-sounding production ("as long as you love me") that makes him a cog in the machine

i.e. the Jack U song, which is where i think a lot of the crit reappraisal is coming from. personally i'll admit that i was more shocked than anyone that not only did a collab between Diplo Skrillex and Justin Bieber not make me want to hurl myself off a building I actually liked it

d-40 otm

lex stale aesthetic hobbyhorses zzz

my fave nu-biebz moment is towards the end of wdym when he ad libs "be more straightforward!", u rly feel the polite anguish

haha yes that part almost takes me out of it bc its a tell that he's not entirely certain he understands what the song is about

I'm not sure he can spell "straightforward"

even prettier than his grindr-twink haircut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfGaX8G0f2E

album is fine

the second half of this is pretty garb

i straight up love at least two of the bonus tracks ("been you" and "get used to me") but prob bc they sound like lost songs from the recent derulo record

some of the bonus tracks are nice tho

"been you" is amazing yeah prob the best thing on here that wasn't put out in advance

really loathe the title track

on through the one with big sean i think this is pretty tight altho that one should be way better but bieber's voice can't carry it at all for whatever reason. but the travis scott song is a throwaway, the piano ballads suck and "children" sounds like legit parody (tho skrillex's riff is kinda nice). i like the halsey song a lot which seems impossible... i'm not sure i would've known she was on it if she wasn't billed. second half is really wayward from a conceptual & strategic standpoint.

the halsey song ("the feeling") ruuuules

also the sheeran co-write is just a dead stop after the build of "what do you mean" and "sorry"

if you kept the first 7 tracks, ditched the travis scott record, moved the halsey one up, kept "where are u now" and swapped the other three out with "been you", "get used to me" and "hit the ground" you'd have a great front back to album. almost there! oh well i might just do that myself anyway.

i like "love yourself" as a song but the sequencing is weird yeah. it's like 3-4 songs too early. also knowing that it's a sheeran record makes it seem a little craven. it's a good song tho.

yeah "been you" is such a breath of fresh air after all the dogshit preceding it, hard to believe it's the first bonus track