richard hell - pioneer or silly old fool

Walked by beforehand but couldn't go unfortunately

so in the great destiny street v destiny street repaired debate - for a first timer with this rec its obv going to be the first one right? repaired got some decent reviews

There's a bit in the book where he becomes aware of the Sex Pistols - "Four guys who look just like you" someone tells him - and I expected him to go into a rant about how he was robbed, but he goes on to articulate exactly why the Sex Pistols became huge while he's something of a footnote.
― brio, Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:09 PM (three years ago)

I thought Malcolm Mclaren had wanted him to come over and front the band before Johnny Rotten turned up. So surprised he'd only hear about them once they were up and running. Obvioulsy his priorities at the time might have been different and he might have been more focused elsewhere.

Is it in England's Dreaming where several of the first wave UK punk bands are trying to make the direct nicks from Hell material in their songs once he's turned up in the UK?

I know i read it somewhere anyway.

What a timely revive, as I just read this 1997 PFS interview with Quine where he talks about the McLaren offer (talking about '75-'76):

After about a year, he'd come over to my house and listen to records. He was quitting the Heartbreakers at that point. He wanted to have his own band. He had an offer from England from Malcolm McLaren. We would have been the Sex Pistols. He wanted us to go there to start a band. I don't know why that didn't happen.

I was not aware of a repaired Destiny Street! Will check it out. At 220 grams, the Munster reissue of the original is the heaviest album I own.

Err, the "he" in that first line refers to Hell, to be clear.

Yeah I think the story is that Mclaren had these 2 yobboes i.e. Steve Jones and Paul Cook coming into his clothing shop to attempt to shoplift clothing. They'd been playing together for a while and wound up with the shop's Saturday boy Glen Matlock joining them on bass but they didn't have a frontman cos Jones didn't like his voice. But Mclaren was interested in seeing what he could do with them.

So even with it just being Hell, as I thought, there would have been some duplication of instrument players. Hadn't realised Quine was supposed to be part of the same deal

Can't imagine Malcolm McLaren wanting someone looking like Robert Quine anywhere near any band he was involved with.

Looks like the sourcce for taht info is an interview with Quine for Perfect Sound Forever that's been up for years.
I don't remember taht bit of it but it has been about a decade plus since i remember reading it.

That interview is an ur-text.

Oh right, was wondering if it was an original interview for the online zine but its done by the editor.

Not sure how long Quine's been dead though. Was it shortly afterwards?

Feel like it came out right about when he died yes.

RICHARD HELL AND THE VOIDOIDS
CELEBRATE 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF BLANK GENERATION

40th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Of The Influential Punk Album
Includes A Remastered Version Of The Original,
Plus Rare And Unreleased Studio And Live Recordings

Available On Limited Edition CD And Vinyl On November 24

http://image.e.wbr.com/lib/fe8e137075670c7572/m/1/Richard_Hell_Blank_Generation_40th_Anniversary_Deluxe_Edition_2397526_PR.jpg

LOS ANGELES -Richard Hell and the Voidoids' Blank Generation is an iconic album that has influenced countless rock bands with its image, its attitude, and its blistering performances. Released in 1977 on Sire Records, the album was received ecstatically by critics such as Lester Bangs and the New York Times' Robert Palmer (who called it one of the ten best albums of the decade), but as was the case with most original "punk" albums, it wouldn't get mainstream recognition for decades. Now its place in music history is secure as one of punk's most significant records. Recently, Rolling Stone magazine lauded Blank Generation as one of the "40 Greatest Punk Albums of All Time," giving the innovative and literate band its well deserved credit on the cusp of its 40th anniversary.

This seminal album is being recognized on its 40th anniversary this year with limited edition double-CD and double-LP deluxe editions to be released on Record Store Day's Black Friday. BLANK GENERATION: 40th ANNIVERSARY DELUXE EDITION will be available at independent music retailers worldwide November 24 on CD (limited to 5,250 copies) for $19.98 and vinyl (limited to 4,500 copies) for $31.98.

Produced for release by Richard Hell, the album has been expertly remastered-by Greg Calbi of Sterling Sound, who mastered the original LP-as well as restored to its original 1977 track listing and sleeve imagery. BLANK GENERATION: 40th ANNIVERSARY DELUXE EDITION includes a second disc, with previously unreleased, alternate studio versions, out-of-print singles, and rare bootleg live tracks from the band's first appearance in 1976 at CBGB. The booklet also contains many previously unpublished photos of the band by Roberta Bayley (the renowned CBGB photographer who shot the LP's original cover), a revealing essay by Hell along with compelling images from his notebooks and private papers, and an extensive new interview with Ivan Julian by Hell.

After establishing his reputation as founder of legendary bands the Heartbreakers and Television, Hell went onto to lead the Voidoids which included Robert Quine (who later played in Lou Reed's Blue Mask band, as well as for Tom Waits, John Zorn, and many others), Ivan Julian (who would record for Matthew Sweet and numerous other artists) and Marc Bell ("Marky Ramone"). Along with the Ramones, Television, Blondie and Talking Heads, Hell and his band helped to define the early New York "first wave" punk scene. The song "Blank Generation" became a slogan and an anthem and later was emulated by the Sex Pistols for their track, "Pretty Vacant."

Such songs as "Love Comes In Spurts" and "Blank Generation" were originally recorded at Electric Lady Studios, but were re-recorded prior to release at Plaza Sound during Sire Records' transition to Warner Bros. Records in 1977. At Plaza Hell reworked the album, leaving behind alternate versions and outtakes from Electric Lady that now appear on the second discs of these deluxe editions. The music sounds as fresh and abrasive today as when it was first released.

Hell retired from music in 1984, refocusing on writing as his vocation. He's the author of two novels and several books of nonfiction including his acclaimed autobiography, I Dreamed I Was a Very Clean Tramp.

For more information about RICHARD HELL AND THE VOIDOIDS please contact Jessica Giordano in the Rhino Media Relations Department at jess✧✧✧.giord✧✧✧@rh✧✧✧.c✧✧ or 818-238-6403.

BLANK GENERATION: 40th ANNIVERSARY DELUXE EDITION
CD Track Listing:

Disc One: Original Album Remastered
1. "Love Comes In Spurts"
2. "Liars Beware"
3. "New Pleasure"
4. "Betrayal Takes Two"
5. "Down At The Rock And Roll Club"
6. "Who Says?"
7. "Blank Generation"
8. "Walking On The Water"
9. "The Plan"
10. "Another World"

Disc Two: Bonus Album
1. "Love Comes In Spurts" - Electric Lady Studios Alternate Version
2. "Blank Generation" - Electric Lady Studios Alternate Version
3. "You Gotta Lose" - Electric Lady Studios Outtake Version
4. "Who Says?" - Plaza Sound Studios Alternate Version
5. "Love Comes In Spurts" - Live at CBGB, November 19, 1976
6. "Blank Generation" - Live at CBGB, November 19, 1976
7. "Liars Beware" - Live at CBGB, April 14, 1977
8. "New Pleasure" - Live at CBGB, April 14, 1977
9. "Walking On The Water" - Live at CBGB, April 14, 1977
10. "Another World" - Ork Records Version
11. "Oh" - Original 2001 Release
12. 1977 Sire Records Radio Commercial

LP Track Listing
Side One
1. "Love Comes In Spurts"
2. "Liars Beware"
3. "New Pleasure"
4. "Betrayal Takes Two"
5. "Down At The Rock And Roll Club"
6. "Who Says?"

Side Two
1. "Blank Generation"
2. "Walking On The Water"
3. "The Plan"
4. "Another World"

Side Three
1. "Love Comes In Spurts" - Electric Lady Studios Alternate Version
2. "Blank Generation" - Electric Lady Studios Alternate Version
3. "You Gotta Lose" - Electric Lady Studios Outtake Version
4. "Who Says?" - Plaza Sound Studios Alternate Version
5. "Love Comes In Spurts" - Live at CBGB, November 19, 1976
6. "Blank Generation" - Live at CBGB, November 19, 1976

Side Four
1. "Liars Beware" - Live at CBGB, April 14, 1977
2. "New Pleasure" - Live at CBGB, April 14, 1977
3. "Walking On The Water" - Live at CBGB, April 14, 1977
4. "Another World" - Ork Records Version
5. "Oh" - Original 2001 Release
6. 1977 Sire Records Radio Commercial

weird, they left out the alternate "R+R Club" that was on the old CD version

No!! I love that version!!

Didn't Richard Hell regret switching the versions?

I'm surprised there isn't further discussion about this. I was reluctant to pick this up because of the complaints posted elsewhere, but the CD version is still easily found and I came across a really good used one for $10. The package is pretty nice but I have to agree with many of the complaints I've heard. Leaving aside minor quibbles that shouldn't be dealbreakers for most people:

1) The bonus tracks are inadequate. I'm glad they separated them out into a separate disc, and for historical reasons it's nice that the original LP as released has been restored with the reinstatement of the "correct" version of "R+R Club," but as mentioned, the bonuses leave out the alternate "R+R Club" found on the old CD (and I've seen quite a few writers and critics who prefer that version). They also leave out the two bonus outtakes found on the same, older CD, and even though they include the Ork EP version of "Another World," they left off the other two tracks from the same EP. As is, the entire two CD set clocks in well below 80 minutes, so there was certainly plenty of space left to include these tracks.

2) The sound is much worse than expected. This is due to the mastering - lots of compression, excessive treble boost - but it's even worse for the bonus tracks because very poor sources were obviously used. For example, the Electric Ladyland outtakes sound like cassette dubs. That's especially disappointing because Richard Hell decided to re-record the album at Plaza Sound when the release was delayed, and though some of the original Electric Ladyland recordings remained on the album, many believe the Plaza Sound recordings in general were inferior to the Electric Ladyland recordings (albeit still great). Then there's the Ork EP version of "Another World" - it sounds very poor as well. A year or two before this set was released, Numero Group in Chicago released an amazing box set of Ork recordings - it's worth getting for the hardcover book alone, but the discs include all three tracks from the "Another World" Ork EP. It's definitely mastered from a vinyl copy, but the track "Another World" sounds far better on that Ork box set than it does here. (The Ork set also sounds much better than the limited edition EP reissue from 1994, which got a vinyl and CD release.) Sadly, we'll have to presume the master tapes for that EP are lost forever, but at least the Numero Group did a commendable job remastering it. It's just stunning how bad the one track sounds a few years later on the Rhino anniversary reissue.

thanks for that breakdown, much appreciated. I haven't heard the newer 2CD, but I have the Numero Ork box, the 1994 7" EP Overground reissue, an OG US Sire vinyl LP, and the CD reissue from 1990 or so with "All The Way". I've never A/B'd the EP with the Ork version, will check that.

another missing piece is the Radar 7" version of "Kid With The Replaceable Head"

Listening now to something called “Time (Destiny Street Demos)” -Live - Bonus Track

his best song probably? prefer the outtake that was on a recent comp. here's a cover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kzuNNBumAY

Maybe one day I will read his memoir, which I was reminded of again on one of the other threads.

TIL that Minutemen song was a cover.

!

I love "Time." It's definitely one of his great songs. He's made several great recordings but my favorite was collected on Spurts: The Richard Hell Story so it's possibly the one most people will hear anyway.

Maybe one day I will read his memoir, which I was reminded of again on one of the other threads.

It's really good, in maybe even preferable to Patti Smith's Kids. For the most part, I enjoyed her book, but I didn't like the mythologizing and Hell's memoir felt like a good antidote for it.

There's a new version of Destiny Street that's just been released on vinyl - Nick Zinner remixed it I think?

Has anyone heard that?
The reissue on Munster Records that I bought 20 odd years ago is the heaviest album in my possession, 220 grams!

lol I already bragged about that >4yrs ago I see

ha, i think i have some other Munster release thats 220, what was up with that?

's really good, in maybe even preferable to Patti Smith's Kids. For the most part, I enjoyed her book, but I didn't like the mythologizing and Hell's memoir felt like a good antidote for it.

yeah, Kids left me cold for just that reason. Hell's is lighter on the self-mythologizing, although in a few places he goes too far in the other direction - theres some demeaning stuff about his sex conquests that i found unnecessary. but its a good read. I actually got a bit more out of his crit collection Massive Pissed Love though.

looking at this thread i see i missed the 40th anniversary blank gen set? i never thought richard hell of all people would be one of those artists where i would be buying copy after copy of their same releases over and over

He seems like a smart guy but the music leaves me cold and I hate hate hate the sound of his voice. Maybe I should give one of his books a chance.

The Blank Generation deluxe edition contains a song named "Oh", recorded with the reunited group in 2001. It must have the worst vocal I've ever heard on an official release by anyone, I can't believe he thinks it was adequate. Not that his singing was ever his selling point.

I didn't like "Oh" either, just as I didn't like Destiny Repaired but it's kind of understandable. I can't be too optimistic when he suddenly comes back decades later and cuts a record.

Anyway, he's a great figure in rock, but he wasn't necessarily a great recording artist. I think his first EP, the Blank Generation LP, and a handful of additional recordings collected on Spurts: The Richard Hell Story are genuinely great records, but they didn't come easy to him - it's still debatable as to whether he actually improved Blank Generation when he chose to re-record a part of it. His only other LP was compromised by his poor health. I wish he had a larger body of work, but I don't blame him for getting out of music because he's lucky to have survived. The only times I've ever seen him around NYC were for film-related events, and he's a good film critic - for a year or two, he had a film column in magazine that may not be around anymore. At the time, I didn't know much about him outside of his musical career, so when I first saw him, I was kind of taken aback by how happy and healthy he looked. Charming and hilarious, it actually made me happy that he was in a much better place.

Blank Generation is a favorite record of mine, but a lot of what makes it great for me comes to those players and that moment - its Quine's best moment as well as Hell's imo

It's interesting, there's an Ivan Julian documentary on Amazon Prime (kinda low budget, not amazing but an interesting look into the guy's life) and I was reeeaaallly surprised that a good amount of the really memorable guitar parts I credit Quine with in my head were Julian

in 1993, while working at Razor & Tie, I supervised a reissue of Destiny Street and got to know him a little bit… he retained 0 rights with respect to anything that could be done with it; the label licensed it from Red Star, i.e. Marty Thau, who possessed the deepest, most pronounced Noo Yawk accent I've ever heard to this day… Hell viscerally despised Thau, but not so much that he wouldn't cooperate with us in putting this thing together… one time I met with him at De Robertis, that bakery on the east side of 1st avenue, where he pitched me on putting a tentacle porn comic he had written in a fold out of the reissue…"uh, that's quite an idea Mr Hell!" I stammered/chuckled, "but I think he need to pass on that! would you be interested in writing some notes about the songs?" He did.

He was super pleasant and friendly the entire time. I also went to his apartment a couple of times; he lived in the same building on 12th street as Allen Ginsberg…he did indeed look very healthy at that time, in fact he was quite handsome, and when I saw him for years after —although I lived on 4th and 1st ave, very near where he lived, for 16 years, I never decided to engage him, and he never recognized me— almost every time he was with a very very beautiful woman many decades his junior. I guess he is pretty singular as a guy that really doesn't feel any motivation to be a performer…I don't remember very much about Dim stars…and it does seem that he stayed clean since the very early 80s.

I have never listened to Destiny Repaired, i.e. the result of his decision to replace the work of Bob fuckin' Quine of all fucking guitarists with that of Frisell and Ribot, and for that matter am bewildered that Ribot and Frisell would consent to do such a thing in the first place. It's not like there's something truly wrong with the initial record!

and before all this, growing up in misfits-besotted louisville, a few times I played Blank Generation in the presence of some of my buddies… and so, just cuz you wear your die die die my darling leather jacket everytime you leave the house doesn't mean you can handle Trout Mask Replica or The Modern Dance or indeed Blank generation.

oh wow awesome post thank you for that

WOW yeah great story - the comic idea is o_0. Agree that the destiny st repaired thing seems pointless and baffling, i never had any interest in it.

i had a friend in publishing who told me in the 2000s he used to throw proofreading & editing jobs Hell's way from time to time and said he was always super nice & easy to deal with and happy for the work, no matter how piddly or small the gigs were. he strikes me as one of those folks whose rep as a notorious curmudgeon is maybe overblown or out of date a bit.

i actually don't mind the repaired or remixed versions — but yeah, they are ultimately unnecessary. Destiny Street the OG album is great! Actually, the best thing about the newest Destiny Street collection is the inclusion of the 1978-1980 material (demos, singles etc). It's all shown up elsewhere I think, but presented as a whole it's like another awesome quine/julian lineup LP.

fuck man! i've spent the past two days listening to lou alums i never owned –I really like growing up in public, and take no prisoners is hilarious but I feel justified in not investing in Sally, R&R heart and Coney— but I'm gonna listen to that next! Reed/Quine/Saunders/Maher is one of my favorite bands to have ever existed…

aw man those are all great! I've been immersed in them as well this week, coincidentally

(Sally, R+R H, and Coney)

My friend argued that Sally Can't Dance is the best Bad Album of all time, but that discussion should maybe wait for a Lou thread.

ooh yes please, revive

I re-watched Desperately Seeking Susan recently, and recognized Hell as the sugar daddy in the opening scene; guess I didn't know who he was when I saw it in the past, cool cameo.

(wow, some other cool people also turn up in it - I knew about Ann Magnuson, but not some of these others.)

in 1993, while working at Razor & Tie, I supervised a reissue of Destiny Street and got to know him a little bit…

great story, thanks for sharing!

ok just cracked my copy of the new destiny st restoration/remix and seeing that 3 of the tracks are still the 'repaired' ribot & frisell versions, wtf? liners explain that he only found most of the original multitrack tapes... this fuckin guy, he got me again...

i dont even have a problem with the frisell/ribot guitars themselves, i like them, but the 2009-era vocals sound super out of place when mixed into the context of the other 1981 cuts. here are these wild feral tracks of a "small combo playing real gone rocknroll", interrupted every so often by a 60something man with a completely different vocal range and his adult daughter stepping in for a karaoke interlude. its just so weird that hes so obsessed with replacing those original guitars at any cost - he's got to know thats not a winning trade. i guess i can make a playlist slotting in the old tracks, but man, didnt see that coming.

Yeah, it's frustrating, but at least the original mix is on there. Before this, the album in general was OOP, so it's nice to have it all in one go and (hopefully) not have to buy it again...or maybe they'll find the last multitrack and finish remixing the whole thing?

Quine's guitar work on the OG title track is so goddamn good, what kind of savage reworks that? SO baffling.