Kamasi Washington - The Epic

D-40

He has a point, I don't know why people have to get all personally offended. It's not unhealthy to interrogate one's own preferences and how they relate to a bigger picture. The people who respond with "it's all just music, man" don't get it.

is it too much to ask to actually listen to the fuckin album is my point. no shit there's cultural and critical elements to how music is received i'm not 12 yrs old

D-40 has a point, I mean

it's a facile point

Holy cow he already told you he's talking about the "reception" of the music, not the music itself. Maybe that's not valuable to you, I don't know I think it's interesting

How is it facile? Because it irritates you?

because it's a position he trotted out several years ago and has done so repeatedly, whether its relevant/accurate or not

Is it an appropriate avenue for discussion? Jeez.

I've ignored this so far bc I assumed it was the latest iteration of spiritual hat jazz

I mean c'mon this post is just a) I am ignorant and then b) am dispensing a handy, readymade argument I have against it anyway

and then c) basing that assumption on my own assumptions about the album's audience

Oh come on how many people bought/listened to this thing NCAA of the cover????

lol NCAA equals because

what's wrong with the cover?

It looks like a space rock album... It looks like a hipster album.. It does not look like most jazz album covers that are released these days

are you literally arguing for judging an album by its cover

brave, critical appraisal there tell me more

I'm saying if people were more inclined to listen to this because of the cover, why is it bad for someone to reject it based on the cover?

two groups of idiots that deserve each other imo

No no no Never mind, you sound grumpy.

You must be really special. You've never been inclined to check out an album because of the sleeve artwork? How is is bad? Or "idiotic"?

still not sure what the argument is -- people *should* check out an album if they think the cover art is cool? people *shouldn't* check out an album if they think the cover art is cool?

I'm not arguing that "people only like this album because it looks cool", I'm just acknowledging that it happens and that it's a worthwhile thing to discuss. Ppl getting all mad seem to think they're being accused of being racists or squares or something???

this thread got stupid

Fuck you

afaict the people who checked out the album based on the cover are doing so for the wrong reasons and don't actually like jazz, they just like spiritual hats, and should be judged accordingly as apostates before the altar of canonical jazz cats like Duke Ellington who btw is much better

this whole line of argument is stupid, it has nothing to do with the album in question and everything to do with D-40's tendency to engage in audience strawman ad hom criticism, which should be beneath us tbh

I preferred the posts on why people liked/disliked the music.

I like the cover - it looks great.

don't get me wrong the whole spiritual hat thing and associated threads are very funny

but indulging the readymade opinions of someone who hasn't bothered to listen to the record isn't really in anyone's interest

xp

A friend wants to know if they have been selling the 3xLP at the gigs?

man this place used to be the one place where i wouldn't have to read page after page of people backpatting for agreeing w/ critical consensus now you can't even talk about how it's covered ??

i'm quite interested in this world but I don't see anyone else, including fans of it, really talking about it in ways that get at what makes it unique or now or whatever, i'm looking for the discussion to sell me on it & no one is doing that here, and then its like "LOL YOU HAVENT EVEN LISTENED TO IT" and its like, no, because i don't make it a mission to keep up w/ jazz generally and as someone who did for many years i'm definitely not about to do so again just because a bunch of rock critics decided this is the one time you should

esp from people who are like "no i don't want pitchfork reviewing more jazz!!" yes that would be the worst, if jazz started getting coverage from places people actually read sometimes!!

jazz is not a closed circuit of boring shit that once in a long while shits out a genius auteur, it's a genre in which there are peaks & valleys and many artists doing lots of different things and i like to read criticism that acknowledges this fact instead of touching on the one thing that gets lots of attention as if that is a self-fulfilling rationalization for that attention.

Ayler had melodies; Charles Gayle doesn't

This has gone unchallenged for over four hours?

Gayle's piano stuff in particular is full of melodies. It's true he rarely played a "head" or anything like that, but his lines are full of quotes, repeated melodic motifs, etc. You talk like he's in Borbetomagus or something.

considering the ppl who read, write for, and edit pitchfork yes, w/o qualification, it would be a bad thing if they reviewed more jazz.

also jazz already gets coverage in places ppl actually read (which doesn't really describe pfork nowadays anyway)

Not everyone on this thread has been positive and the dialogue was actually pretty measured prior to this but again I feel like you read what you want to read

i bought this awhile back but haven't even opened it yet. my main reason for buying it was wanting to support current spiritual hat, being i am a big fan of spiritual hat, main reason i haven't listened to it is because there's already enough og spiritual hat to listen to for a good long time not sure why i'd want to listen to revival spiritual hat

he's not even wearing a hat on the album cover ffs

the hat is implied by the afro

also jazz already gets coverage in places ppl actually read (which doesn't really describe pfork nowadays anyway)

― balls, Monday, October 5, 2015 7:00 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

such as? no mentioning ny times or new yorker

or similar prestige pubs

Not everyone on this thread has been positive and the dialogue was actually pretty measured prior to this but again I feel like you read what you want to read

― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, October 5, 2015 7:00 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its not about posi or negative I'm not looking for 'balance' its more about answering the question TLG poses, what is this doing that is NEW as opposed to MARKETABLE

Haha, ironically, the guy who wrote about this album for Pitchfork is a writer for the New Yorker, who covers jazz there! lol
http://www.newyorker.com/contributors/seth-colter-walls

one thing i think is missing I'm looking for is something about washington as a soloist which isn't really addressed in these reviews, which mostly stick to the macro sound of the album, as opposed to his strengths as a soloist, at least beyond the 'you'll hear a little coltrane, a little kenny garrett' like someone telling you the whiskey has an oak finish

Just admit you like arguing on the internet more than jazz. I bet your first post was more than 182 minutes ago.

i went to the gym and listened to lil herb

i find it hard to judge a lot of the solo playing on this record because a lot of the time there's either i. some really chops-heavy rhythm section playing which is not really reacting to the solo other than just being there and keeping on keeping on or ii. a celestial choir oohing and aahing at the wonders of the solo or iii. both

this kinda sets up any solo for INSTANT BATHOS

anyway i would like to thank this thread for making me get around to listening to charles gayle

such as? no mentioning ny times or new yorker

I'm not gonna pretend I get significant numbers of readers (we're talking triple digits on a good day), but I write about jazz pretty regularly.

People absolutely should judge albums by their covers. It's why covers exist.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5092/5401581533_547d300597_b.jpg

What explains the left-field success of the Tijuana Brass? Certainly some credit goes to the album's cover, which features a sultry model swathed in whipped cream. (Alpert, who co-owned the creative, independent A&M Records with Jerry Moss, recalled, years later, that this was the album where he "realized how important it is to be visual with instrumental music.")