pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Yes a lot of it is the self-righteous mocking the self-righteous.

i thought the ironic part about SJW was the "W" part -- i.e. people who get a self-righteous buzz from condemning people on social media, thinking they are doing battle for the greater good, but really just resounding in an echo chamber. i guess some people use "SJW" to mock the "SJ" part, too...

― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:02 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is giving the guys of gamergate a lot more credit than they deserve. they actively think ppl who are feminist are brainwashed by SJWs. that doesn't suggest to me they're critiquing echo chambers equally, lol

*feminists

Would be down for a dedicated thread cos it feels like I run across SJW-based conspiracies in comment sections all over the internet.

this is giving the guys of gamergate

see, i haven't been following this at all and only have the faintest idea of what it is (i don't play computer games and haven't for decades), so perhaps i'm insulated from some of the worst stuff.

Yes, I'm pro-SJW too. I'm sure everyone on ILX is. This 100 times

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:59 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh wait forgot about Mordy, lol

Super into a bunch of straight white dudes (correct me if I'm wrong!) determining what is or isn't performative when it comes to social justice, I'd call it policing but a bunch of you are gonna get all twisted about it I know

sorry, I'm just extremely hardline on this because I was there for the first wave (fortunately too obscure there to be targeted, but one degree of separation from those who were) and I am very much not thrilled about experiencing the sequel in music writing

i do get a little annoyed when people refer to ILX as all straight white dudes. makes me think they don't read ILX (or at least the threads i read idk)

If whiney and deej are queer, that's news to me

The passive aggressive tone police

marcos otm

deej and whiney are their own special duo/brand of police

Super into a bunch of straight white dudes (correct me if I'm wrong!) determining what is or isn't performative when it comes to social justice,

in 20 years nearly this entire sentence will be inscrutable to all but the most diligent academic historians of social media

If whiney and deej are queer, that's news to me

― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 5:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and there are more people than whiney and deej participating in this conversation

Yes, and they're the ones who are talking about performativity

wait you're concerned about straight white males policing straight white males policing straight white males when does this Matryoshka doll end

I apologize if I mislabelled anyone but it's clear that I fucking hate when people call things in this area performative (and I've done it myself so don't get me wrong, I'm trying to be better too) because 99% of the time, it's just projection and distracting from the actual substance of the critique or w/e

while we're on the subject this piece rubbed me the wrong way for a number of reasons http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/903-why-michete-is-the-worst-queer-rapper-you-need-to-listen-to/

mostly because the writer only seems to understand how to discuss/analyze music in the context of backlash, in this case perceived & nonexistent backlash against a version of progressivism. there are a bunch of phrases like "this will disturb listeners" but the shit has like 500 soundcloud plays. there are other ways to write about music!!

then there's all this handwringing about whether a non-black rapper is sufficiently persecuted enough to non-offensively perform the task of rapping. the writer literally, like, ticks off boxes that allow you to rap in good conscience? and then he just handwaves the potential offensive aspects of the rapper he's writing about by being like "if you're non-straight your life may be so fucked up that it's ok if you don't care about the things i say you're supposed to care about." i think at one point in his twisted point about when it's ok to be a rapper he is like "we should praise this rapper for not actually caring about any of this" lol

even the logical fallacies are so wrapped up in twisted politics, it was making my head spin. like the fact that the writer & headline openly admit that the rapper is not good but the conclusion of the piece is basically "if you don't like this rapper it means you're at best a prude but if not probably a homophobe"

in any event i think we all agree on the worthwhile of this general worldview but that it produces pieces like this is rather depressing to me

terrible piece on a terrible rapper

I apologize if I mislabelled anyone but it's clear that I fucking hate when people call things in this area performative (and I've done it myself so don't get me wrong, I'm trying to be better too) because 99% of the time, it's just projection and distracting from the actual substance of the critique or w/e

― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 5:31 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I actually don't see the harm in distracting from the "critique" of "Some dude from a hipster metal band said f*ggot three years ago and that is wrong"

Especially when ~100% of the people who read ILX and SPIN already know that is a bad thing

Like why can't you talk to me like a fucking adult?

A lot of music writing is very bad and self-indulgent and intellectually dishonest, so it ought not be surprising that some writing which also invokes political ideas we agree with and support would share these qualities. To my mind a lot of the pearl clutching about race and gender politics has filled the structural void previously occupied by pearl clutching about "selling out" now that the latter concept has become so diffuse. But I would also say that the uptick in discussion of these issues has produced a lot of excellent writing as well.

Which makes me wonder if there is a secret canon of great past writing about the ethics of selling out.

I wouldn't call that post "performative" so much as "we need to put this up but can't just embed the tweets by themselves"

that said I'm a straight white male so interpret my opinion with that in mind

Whiney, I agree with you in this instance because I know who you're talking about (Ott) and, yeah, most of us prob have better things to do than go after three year-old tweets BUT as a QPOC myself, I'm generally just not ever gonna like the idea of straight white dudes who aren't affected either way by the effects of inequality/social justice ever being in the position to say who is or isn't working for my benefit

xpost the post isn't performative, the writing in the post is

*mostly affected, I know there are still benefits/downsides to/for you guys, don't worry

I'm def not talking about Ott. I think it's 100% appropriate for Twitter and message boards to gossip and say look at the homophobic dipshit from Deafheaven

I'm saying when websites run by cis whiteboys run it as "news" with this po-faced tone of "the struggle is... so real," I personally find it super condescending and disingenous.

"A lot of music writing is very bad and self-indulgent and intellectually dishonest, so it ought not be surprising that some writing which also invokes political ideas we agree with and support would share these qualities."

what that guy said.

xp - quick someone start a poll of the most condescending and disinguous Whiney G posts

disingenuous even

Anyone else always hear the term "Coco Rosie" to the tune of "Who is...Johnny"?

If whiney and deej are queer, that's news to me
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 5:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah well "SJW clickbait" is ridiculous because it implies that social justice topics are things that bring people to music sites as opposed to loss-leaders for the greater good

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:53 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait so ur saying pitchfork don't make $$$ off The Pitch? why else would it exist? it's awful & shits all over their brand

while we're on the subject this piece rubbed me the wrong way for a number of reasons http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/903-why-michete-is-the-worst-queer-rapper-you-need-to-listen-to/

mostly because the writer only seems to understand how to discuss/analyze music in the context of backlash, in this case perceived & nonexistent backlash against a version of progressivism. there are a bunch of phrases like "this will disturb listeners" but the shit has like 500 soundcloud plays. there are other ways to write about music!!

the author's recent miley cyrus piece in the same place is also horrible. what's up with editorial over there????

I have an idea. Their brand is shit...

:: scene fades to SWJW feverishly scratching at pitchfork tattoo and compulsively clicking reload, just waiting for someone, anyone, to say it aint so ::

I'm just saying, if you intend to talk about this without unintentionally aligning yourself with people you don't want to align yourself with there are better terms to use than SJW. some examples include: almost anything

how about SWJW?

the author's recent miley cyrus piece in the same place is also horrible. what's up with editorial over there????

I don't think The Pitch is actually edited as such; it's more like "You seem really passionate about this issue; here's the login and password - post away!"

Can I post to pitchfork?

I'm just saying, if you intend to talk about this without unintentionally aligning yourself with people you don't want to align yourself with there are better terms to use than SJW. some examples include: almost anything
--a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine)

"cucks" it is

sun kucks moon

*The Safe Spacers* WOULD be a good name for an indie band. can we all agree on that?

no

imo sjw is a good thing to be

fat sjw less good, but that's why i bought a gym membership

What's an untainted synonym now that SJW has gone the way of PC? There's obviously a school of simplistic, self-righteous cultural criticism like the piece Jordan identified (and most of The Pitch) and there must be a way of critiquing it without being tied to fucking Gamergate.

"how much can one permit the absence of racial self-awareness in Michete’s incendiary thematic, considering the often unfriendly or violent cis majority trans* people face?"

"Permit" is the key word here. It's all about what is "allowed" (by right-thinking Pitchfork writers) and what artists "should" be doing and saying in order to benefit society.

In this line he literally sounds like a lawyer at a parole hearing:

"Such inquiries must take into account not only the queer artist’s clear offenses (like a Hitler shout out) but also the artist’s potential radical value"