Talk Talk (RIP Mark Hollis)

It's amazing how Talk Talk incurs a flurry of interest in 12 year intervals after the release of Laughing Stock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLtsXcLuDMs

My personal top fifteen.

I bought 'Laughing Stock' when I pretty little assuming that it would sound like "It's My Life". I think nowadays I might have skipped over the thing given the short attention span nearly all of us having the era of instant access and disposal of music but at that point spending my lunch money on the thing was a BIG DEAL and I was determined to get my money's worth out of it. :P

Fell in love with a week later and opened new doors for me.

About a week ago I listened to the classic triptych again for the first time in a number of years. It was a Sunday night, I drank some booze, I thought about it. By that I mean life... and Talk Talk.

Laughing Stock was the Talk Talk record that initially hooked me, in October or November 2000 I think. As I was quite a stoned young man interested in free jazz, noise, and the indie and "post-" rock styles of the time, the abstractness of it was appealing. It provided a logical ancestor in a musical family tree that seemed to graft its own stems and branches onto the trunk in reverse order. Spirit of Eden, which I heard second, had a kind of... Steve Winwood-like character that I initially didn't like. (Effectively, I found bluesy harmonica objectionable.) The Colour of Spring, the last of the albums I was exposed to, failed to register at all. It had a big, expensive 80s sound that was very unfashionable at the time, although within a few years this public opinion would become somewhat inverted and so would mine. At the height of whatever iteration of the 80s revival was underway in 2005 or 2006, I came to consider The Colour of Spring my favourite of the three.

Listening again, and considering carefully how my opinion has changed since 2000 or 2001—rather than at some interval along the way—I find Laughing Stock so dry and slight as to be uninteresting. This was a record that initially sounded surprising and unlikely, and then became even more surprisingly and unlikely once we knew how much technology and editing was actually used (and how expensive and difficult it would have been at the time). I think, though, the seams are finally showing on this one. We're now finally so used to bits of flown-in guitar, looped drums, and stitched together song structures that the album's tides, currents, and pools of rising and falling intensity finally, finally, I think sound cold, non-organic, and lacking internal consistency. There's not much going on here, really.

The Colour of Spring, which I initially disliked, then favoured strongly during my fashionable 80s revival years, sounds excellent to me. Given that I now hardly listen to music anymore, never go to shows, and rarely read the music press or blogs, I was expecting this one to take a big nosedive in relation to how different I am as a person now, but it didn't. It's the most complete and well-executed of the three records. It certainly prefigures the remaining two records in terms of its ultimate lapse into the pastoral, but what it has that the other two don't appear to, is three things: a) deliberately executed and coherent songcraft throughout; b) apparently substantive before-the-fact structural contributions from other players and technical staff; c) excellent sequencing and exquisite pacing that goes so many places the other two records don't dare. Just now, putting on "Living in Another World," I'm again struck by how excellent the backing vocals are, how the chorus climbs, somewhat orthogonally, to something that's a great big, dumb effective 1980s showboat, and then, moments later, "Chameleon Day." Wow.

Ultimately, and even though I feel The Colour of Spring is the most complete and well-executed of the three, I feel today that Spirit of Eden is the record that has risen the most in my estimation and is at this moment my personal favourite of the three. It's simply luxurious, for one thing. It has all the reported studio artifice of Laughing Stock but the seams don't show as badly, and as such there are expanses of time where suspension of disbelief is not only possible but hard to avoid...

As I get older, though, I suppose I no longer look for the blockbuster—what's the image I'm searching for?—Ray-Ban sunglasses tonal palette of The Colour of Spring. But, at the same time, I actively and coldly decline the moments of intellectualism and abstraction offered by Laughing Stock. Is it that Spirit of Eden reflects the measured, tempered, balanced mindset that comes with age?

I don't think so, I think Spirit of Eden is something a bit darker. Even as it reflects and rewards wisdom, maturity, and nuance, it is probably the most wry and sinister of the three records. Although it's clearly meant to sound cathartic, it's not exculpatory in the slightest. The misdeeds, transgressions and failures are on full display and the joke is probably hiding in plain sight: it's the spirit of Eden, but not Eden itself. It's Eden's ghost, or perhaps Eden's stunt double, a laughing, winking, cautionary simulacrum. Trying to see a linear progression from The Colour of Spring—"Happiness is Easy," right?—through the subsequent records all the way to the solo Mark Hollis LP might be missing the mark. Is there something here, at roughly the midpoint between "It's My Life" and the solo LP, which represents a path already set in motion that could not be stopped, but that never arrived at its intended destination? In my estimation, since Laughing Stock is in no ways a better, clearer, or more refined record, and the solo LP is so cold, unforgiving, almost alien, was this really the progression towards tranquility and peace we hoped it was? Was this the point where Mark Hollis was looking over his shoulder? Was this his "wait a second, wtf" moment? I'm not sure, but I think Spirit of Eden is definitely the closest Mark Hollis might have come to displaying a sense of humour. Five stars.

I think, though, the seams are finally showing on this one. We're now finally so used to bits of flown-in guitar, looped drums, and stitched together song structures that the album's tides, currents, and pools of rising and falling intensity finally, finally, I think sound cold, non-organic, and lacking internal consistency. There's not much going on here, really.

lets fucking fight right now, dude

jkjk i mean you're wrong but theres no need to box over it

I think Laughing Stock exposes the seams of everything that's been recorded since, pretty much.

Don't get me wrong, I used to LOVE Laughing Stock. I guess my point is really what can happen in fifteen years and how that affects what you think about an album and trying to understand why. I did not think Spirit of Eden would come out the winner, I thought Colour of Spring would be reigning champ.

i prefer spirit of eden, too! but i have been listening to laughing stock semi-regularly for about 13 years myself and the bloom has never fallen off the rose (hence why i wished you violence earlier)

that was really great to read, salmon, thanks

i didn't agree with it all either but it's well argued

yeah it is, isnt it! i was so bent on violently protecting the honor of laughing stock i forgot to mention that, too

man I used to jam to "Today" really hard back in high school, I had completely forgotten about it, but this revive got me thinking "what was that one synth pop-era Talk Talk song I really loved?"

Excellent, salmon

comma doing a lot of work there

btw this revive influenced me to listen to colour of spring for the first time in ages which was long overdue <33333333

Colour of Spring and Live at Montreux are my favorite Talk Talk things to listen to.

Laughing Stock has nothing to answer for. Cold? fuck yes it's cold, the world is cold. It's also a record I find impossible to listen to at anything other than overwhelming volume, paying full attention to it.

Interestingly the TT & MH fanpage on Facebook shared this old interview with Tim F-G just yesterday:

http://www.pennyblackmusic.co.uk/MagSitePages/Article/3930/Tim-Friese-Greene-Interview

Key quote:

"PB : How do you feel about Talk Talk’s albums now ? Do you still like listening to them ?

TFG : No, I don’t to be honest. I can listen to some of them more than others. The one that I actually have the most problem with is ‘Spirit of Eden’. When I said that to another journalist recently he found it quite difficult to believe, but it is the one that bothers me the most. ‘Laughing Stock’ is abstract and difficult to kind of get a grip on and I rather like that about it. It was recorded in a much more lo-fi way which was a very deliberate policy on my behalf and I like it much better for that. ‘Spirit of Eden’ is a bit too clean for me. It gets on my nerves. It sounds a bit over-earnest to me now. It could do with a bit of humour on it somewhere as far as I am concerned (Laughs)."

I've not listened to anything but TCoS (and mainly just the singles from that) in a long time, because, well, SoE and LS are a bit intense. I like that both of them have passages of noise and violence and volume, rather than just being this placid, pastoral thing that some people talk about.

Write-in vote for John Cope and Pictures of Bernadette as best TT songs; b-sides that get forgotten about but which are spectacular. The former an incredibly minimal piece of SoE atmosphere, the latter a guitar-driven, angry rock song from circa TCoS.

i came to the colour of spring relatively late after getting lost in laughing stock and spirit of eden for years during my 20s but damn it's a fucking great record that today i enjoy as much as those two. there aren't many records which sound like tcos - it's beautifully produced and arranged

I think "It's My Life" (the album) is pretty good. Like a less melodramatic, more melancholy Japan album.

While I'm at it, "It's My Life" is still such a great track, like a bizarro world reverse image of a Motown single.

When I saw this thread get bumped I was going to ask about It's My Life (the album)! I've always liked their early synth pop stuff, but I've only ever owned the Natural History comp which I got on tape when it came out, never listened to the albums. In fact I've never heard any of Laughing Stock cos it came out after the best of. I should rectify that. But I was wondering if the middle-era albums were worth a listen or if they were more a singles act.

Great post, salmon. I haven't listened to either LS or SOE in years, likely because they're kinda all-encompassing and demand listening to front to back. However I will always rep for tracks like "New Grass" and "I Believe In You"

It's My Life (the album) is solid

Laughing Stock sounded like crap on my dad's nice stereo. It bummed me out.

"Such a shame" rules

on some days "it's my life" is my favorite talk talk album

almost every song on there is v v good, except for "the last time" which isn't that good, and "such a shame"/"it's my life" which are towering masterpieces

Laughing Stock is a very odd-sounding record especially by noughties pop standards. I think it's amazing but it needs massive volume for full effect. And the experience is so far removed from Radiohead even.

Even a song like "New Grass," I don't know how many times I listened to it before I finally turned it up and really heard/focused on the bass line.

"New Grass" is the song I'd play to someone just about to kill himself. No. Maybe that should say that's the song I would play to myself if I was about to leave this world on my own. The beauty of this song transcends the appeal death could have for someone who has lost all hope. It is the warmest, most caressing, most soothing song on Laughing Stock. It's a holy song, the lyrics use Christian terminology: sacrament, Christ, heaven, vow. Mark Hollis is English, if he had been from India he would sing about Vishnu or Krishna, the words and names don't matter. It's all about the music. What reaches our brain via the ears directly without the interference of the ratio. Call it truth, love or anything. I think I would call it trust. (2006)

You're trolling, I get it.

I'm excited to read that Tim friese green interview!

Really with the talk talk albums the more decades go by the more richly they all inform each other and the more sense they make sense next to each other

I can't write sentences atm

I don't think Laughing Stock sounds odd at all from a production/mixing standpoint, although I agree that the record blossons a great deal when turned up. The thought of someone remastering this record without any consideration for dynamic range makes my piss boil, tbh. It would just kill this record.

alfred you should make spottily playlists of these lists

Write-in vote for John Cope and Pictures of Bernadette as best TT songs; b-sides that get forgotten about but which are spectacular. The former an incredibly minimal piece of SoE atmosphere, the latter a guitar-driven, angry rock song from circa TCoS.

― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy)

"for what it's worth" was the first tcos-era song to grab me

You're trolling, I get it.

laughing stock and spirit of eden were so hyped up to me on ilx 16 years ago, that when i finally heard them i was like "eh."

wonderful posts salmon and alex, and thanks everyone for making me want to relisten to the 'silent trilogy' 88-98 after a while.
oddly enough I've yet to listen to TCoS in its entirety - the time has come. yoo-hoo!

Never heard (ha) that term, "silent trilogy." I like it!

Oh god no, 'silent trilogy' totally misses the point. This isn't ambient music.

Not at all! But I think its space and silences are partly what sets it apart. Miles Davis' "He Loved Him Madly" isn't ambient music, either.

Ambient music is not a fucking genre, dammit, it's a mode of listening

xp
absolutely. especially "spirit of eden" and "laughing stock" even more so are a lot about the clever use of silence as a musical device. following from that there is of course a lot of quiet/loud dynamics. all these pauses totally focus the attention of the listener. whenever there is a quiet passage he/she listens even deeper and more attentively. on the other hand there is also the palate cleaning effect during the spaces, he/she can stop short (and/or reboot) for some time just to get even more immersed into the ocean of music again after.

I would never describe SoE and LS as cold. I've never been able to make out much of the lyrics, so maybe that's people are referring to, but the band use a lot of organ and soft sounds and things I associate as being warm. Even Mark's voice I think of as being muted and warm. I mean, these are terms for temperature we're applying to music, so I guess there's room for hearing things differently

and "cold" is not a pejorative in my book

oh yeah, definitely not. some of my best friends are cold