seed 2.0 is a word for word cover?
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:06 (eight years ago) link
Not sure why "Walk This Way" needs to have a modern rock hit covered word for word by rap star (and word for word only, no samples, no remixes, etc) to be influential. It seems like a needlessly specific criteria.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:07 (eight years ago) link
well that's a matter of perspective - it's treated as "highly influential" but actually the "influence" isn't so much the song but the music video - way more people have done "YOU? ME? TOGETHER? WOW!" than actually ape the track
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:08 (eight years ago) link
and wtf a breakthrough in mtv gimmickry has to do with Best Songs Of the 80s i dunno
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:09 (eight years ago) link
Yes it is, all the cody chesnutt chorus are reprised from his other one minute song. At least that's what I remember.
At any rate you're missing the point it wasn't influential because it prompted hiphop artists to do rock covers but because it made them aware of the versatility of hip hop and how it could reach to out to other genres outside the then-limited hip hop culture.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:10 (eight years ago) link
wtf gimmickry is probably bigger than ever.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:11 (eight years ago) link
moka if we were taking "chorus is interpolated from original song" to mean "word-for-word cover of that song" we'd have a lot more examples
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:11 (eight years ago) link
Have you even heard the cody chesnutt song? The same three chorus on the Roots song is all there is. Word for word.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:15 (eight years ago) link
And yet again: "walk this way" influence wasn't that it prompted hiphop artists to do rock covers I don't understand where you're getting that from.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:18 (eight years ago) link
if you're trying to argue that "walk this way" was A Big Deal, sure fine great, no debate, I said it probably belongs in a Best Videos Of The 80s list just for Tyler busting through the wall and Run-DMC not having it. I'm just pointing out that the cultural influence really outshines its musical influence (there are plenty of other 80s def jam songs that have been more blatantly jacked aesthetically) and that this is a list of Best Songs not Most Important Moments Of The 80s
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:18 (eight years ago) link
opening lyrics to "the seed" by cody chestnutt
I don't ask, for much these daysAnd I don't sit, and whine, if I don't get my wayI only wanna fertilize another behind my lover's backI sit and watch it grow standin' where I'm atFertilize another behind my lover's backAnd I'm keepin' my secrets mineI push my seed in her bush for lifeIts gonna work because I'm pushin' it rightIf Mary drops my baby girl tonightI would name her Rock-N-Roll
opening lyrics to "the seed 2.0" by the roots:
Knocked up 9 months agoAnd what she finna have? She don't knowShe want neo-soul, this hip-hop is oldShe don't want no Rock n' RollShe want platinum or ice or goldShe want a whole lot of something to foldIf you a obstacle she just drop you coldCause one monkey don't stop the showLittle Mary is badIn these streets she done ranEver since when the heat beganI told the girl: "look hereCalm down, I'mma hold your handTo enable you to peep the planCause you is quick to learnAnd we can make money to burnIf you allow me to lay this game"I don't ask for much but enough room to spread my wingsAnd the world finna know my name
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:21 (eight years ago) link
The influence of walk this way was that it set a pop precedent to incorporate elements from rock or to do crossovers to other genres and every "pop song feat. Hiphop act" owes a little to run dmc even if they're not aware of it. Of course, if they didn't do it first someone else might have done it eventually is true but that can be said about everything under the sun.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:21 (eight years ago) link
It wasnt even the first time rap + [insert other genre] was used as a formula for a hit tho.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:26 (eight years ago) link
Such as....?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:28 (eight years ago) link
It was the first big hit that did it, though, and that's what matters when talking about influence. You think all the acts of the 80s that followed suit were thinking about the underground song that made it first or the big hit that they heard last summer?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link
Rockit, Planet Rock...
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link
it's true, the fat boys were probably thinking about "walk this way" when they did "the twist" and "wipeout". i don't think anyone would deny that.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:32 (eight years ago) link
I guess if you want to say Kraftwerk is a rock band, and in the same genre as Aerosmith, you would technically be right. Technically.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:32 (eight years ago) link
Like how many pop songs nowadays have a rap guest verse? Pretty much all of those are indebted to "Walk This Way".
This is an argument for "I Feel For You", not "Walk This Way".
― drown zoowap (The Reverend), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:32 (eight years ago) link
seriously! this song means zip when it comes to "hey let's have somebody rap after the second chorus"
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:34 (eight years ago) link
Ok whatever you stubborn son of a blunt you're right Walk this Way was in no way influential to anything. You win.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:37 (eight years ago) link
don't be a baby
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:38 (eight years ago) link
Whatever kraftwerk were, they were not a rap act. Neither was herbie hancock. Or chic for that matter.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:39 (eight years ago) link
But all those counter examples are dance music meeting dance music. The genres already kind of shared common reference points, sounds, beats, etc. As far as predicting weird mashup culture and genre hybrids "Walk This Way" is a more extreme example.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:39 (eight years ago) link
Hip hop was founded on sampling. They were snatching from disco and funk way before 'walk this way' but were the other genres using hip hop raps as guest verses before?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:41 (eight years ago) link
THEY DIDNT DO THAT ON WALK THIS WAY
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:42 (eight years ago) link
If anything, Walk This Way was a little late to the game when rap and rock were being mixed. Run-DMC themselves had already done King of Rock and the Beasties beat it by a year with She's On It. It probably could've been any artist and any song, but Rubin wanted to do Walk This Way. That's why I'm saying there was far more benefit in it for Aerosmith than for Run-DMC.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:43 (eight years ago) link
I mean, the point wasn't that hiphop borrowed from other genres, it was based around it! The point is that due to that song everyone noticed hip hop's crossover potential and started mixing it outside its comfort zone and subculture.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:44 (eight years ago) link
Walk This Way is a straight cover of "Walk This Way" with NO RAPS that weren't on the original track. they'd done it live before and rick rubin was like "hey what if we got steven tyler and joe perry to do it along with you". Which led to a video where rock and rap met on stage and everyone went COOL. and yes, that was influential. nobody would deny that.
But it has no bearing on "hey put a guest rap verse on the track instead of a solo" it ARGUABLY has some bearing on "hey have the original artist redo their chorus" though its pretty atypical and uninfluential in terms of having no original verses around it.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:46 (eight years ago) link
Everyone pretty otm. I don't think I've ever considered "Walk This Way" more than I have this morning, and I'm realizing I don't really like it that much anyways. Still think it's influential even if it's a bit of a sellout or cash in (perhaps influential BECAUSE of this).
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:46 (eight years ago) link
Run-DMC themselves had already done King of Rock and the Beasties beat it by a year with She's On It.
^^^
these just weren't huge hits, and they didn't involve reviving an ailing rock band's career
croup otherwise otm
― famous instagram dog (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:47 (eight years ago) link
why is someone else's statement used against my otm-ness, that's bullshit
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:47 (eight years ago) link
the guest raps really added something to "Walk This Way," kind of makes you wonder why Aerosmith didn't do that sort of thing in the original
― welltris (crüt), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:49 (eight years ago) link
In 1975, they could've gotten Gil Scott Heron on that shit.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:50 (eight years ago) link
lol sorry croup didn't mean to imply that those points ran counter to each other
― famous instagram dog (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:51 (eight years ago) link
I just noticed you're posting as Shakey Mo. Goin' RETRO!
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 17:56 (eight years ago) link
if I HAD to make a case for "walk this way"'s musical influence (as opposed to marketing), i'd say it's probably an early popular example of hip-hop just straight up USING a familiar chorus as the chorus, with a minimum of trickery. and the lack of other chestnuts with rapped verses and sung choruses meant acts like the fat boys had to take the "twist" and turn it INTO a "walk this way." though ironically that influence - "why hint at a popular tune by taking a stray lick or breakbeat when you can just let the audience shout along with something obvious" - would arguably be the kind that would exclude it from a critical best-of for a decade.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:17 (eight years ago) link
it was vv influential on the hit collaboration between public enemy and stephen stills when they redid f"or what it's worth"
― nomar, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:21 (eight years ago) link
steven tyler was already kind of rapper anyway, easily the most rhythmic and raplike rock vocalist in terms of how he used words and phrasing
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:32 (eight years ago) link
run-dmc tellingly didn't really alter his cadences or phrasing of the vocals at all, just rapped them instead of sung them
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:33 (eight years ago) link
What I was really trying to expose:
Aerosmith > GnRRun DMC & Aerosmith >>>>>>> GnR
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:40 (eight years ago) link
What a terrible way to make that argument
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:41 (eight years ago) link
Also the real top three of this poll should have been:
1. The Message2. Billie Jean3. Running up that hill
The comment made on that article upthread that the top 10 makes more sense if you switch it with 11-20 is otm too, at least it looks like a better top 3:
1. When Doves Cry2. Just Like Heaven3. Billie Jean
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:43 (eight years ago) link
― da croupier
I was joking, I honestly think it was an influential single for that decade and the following but I don't want to go down that road again.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:44 (eight years ago) link
Why should you when no one disagrees
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:45 (eight years ago) link
We just disagree on whether its one of the best of the decade and whether it has guest rap verses on it
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:46 (eight years ago) link
i like guns n roses, good band! the vikings always play the intro to "welcome to the jungle" when they kickoff, love it
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:46 (eight years ago) link
In the context of the p4k list as the measurement of 'best of the decade' I would trade it for any of the two GnR singles any day of the week. If I did my own list of favorite 200 songs of the decade I don't think it would place.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:48 (eight years ago) link
Also the verses on it are unequivocally rap verses, it doesn't matter if they were penned by a rock vocalist before. If the only version of the song that existed was the Run DMC cover and they had penned the lyrics of the verses would it then become a rap verse?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:50 (eight years ago) link
It's like you killfiled my point and not me
― da croupier, Wednesday, 26 August 2015 18:51 (eight years ago) link