Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

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I don't understand why the defense of Steely Dan here have become so over the top. It's not surprising that it turns people off.

On the other hand, the idea that prefering Steely Dan to the Sex Pistols is just a case of contrarianism is ridiculous.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:24 (twenty years ago)

i was introduced to steely dan by friends at my second high school who all had wildly divergent tastes. the dan was the common ground upon which the blood of brotherhood was spilt.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

http://www.securecrazydiamond.com/dizq/40392.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:26 (twenty years ago)

Whatever rings yer bell, Dan.

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:26 (twenty years ago)

You people who wanna chase out the hataz don't realize that haters can serve a useful purpose, as on this thread

― In The Court Of The Redd King Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:28 (twenty years ago)

i'm just surprised people are so into the lyrics in and of themselves (it seems). i mean they are good and perfectly support the music, but i feel sd functions much more the way like shoegaze and ambient music does in terms of vaguely painting places/emotions/etc. even though the lyrics are coherent, they are supposed to function in similar way and less as a story. i'm probably wrong, but this is how i experience it...i think.

Word.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

I didn't try to make unified sense out of the lyrics for years and years, just kind of enjoyed how certain lines complemented the overall feeling.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:36 (twenty years ago)

"Also js, the only thing I'm getting from your posts is that if we were in the same room trying to decide on music to play on the stereo, we would kill each other."

Heh. We've agreed before, and we'll agree again. I'm just not wild about the Dan, Dan.

― js (honestengine), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:36 (twenty years ago)

I think we have more in common than SD, john. In lots of cases it's a question of degrees (for example, Dan enjoys Depeche Mode more than I do, but I do like quite a lot of their stuff).

Yeah, no, I don't think you and Dan are polar opposites. But I don't see you and, say, Ian listening to the same stuff. And I don't see Dan and Hstencil having a whole lot in common. I just sorta threw that list together willy-nilly. You can also toss Ethan in there, too.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:38 (twenty years ago)

i hope i'm not being used to get on dan's *@$*. Everyone back off!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 18:59 (twenty years ago)

man the guitar solo in green earrings is so good.. is that larry carlton?

― shredding repis on the gnar gnar rad (chaki), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 19:23 (twenty years ago)

As much as I do love SD for the music - and to be fair, it took me until 19 years old and living in a college apartment that had been robbed over Thanksgiving and having nothing left but a room mate's 40 year-old sister's dicey lp collection (that thankfully included Aja) to fully appreciate it- for me, it's the lyrics that are key. Not one cringe-worthy moment over the course of the first seven records (haven't familiarized myself w/ the last two to say). In fact, they're sheer genius more often than not. And I'm a guy that HATES lyrics.

― Will (will), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 19:25 (twenty years ago)

Still forcing myself to listen to Katy Lied. It's like a lite jazz Ludovico treatment ovah here.

Explain please why one would enjoy solo Fagan yet be offended by Steely Dan?

― Edward III (edward iii), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 19:40 (twenty years ago)

you don't even like "everyone's gone to the movies" edward?

― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 19:43 (twenty years ago)

Katy Lied was my first Dan album, and it was "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" (perfectly evokes shag carpeted basement porn screenings) and "Dr. Wu" that sold me on 'em.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 19:49 (twenty years ago)

It seems like the Dan are a microcosmic case for why one (dis)/likes music: when one doesn't get them it's about extramusical feelings, or feelings that aren't purely objective: people dislike them because of the associations they make with their sound. And maybe that's what all music fandom is: not some imaginary recognition that a set of notes or a style of playing are good, but an emotional attachment to what we think a band are doing. We all like to think we love stuff cos of its objective greatness, but we know deep down that all there is is a shout out to our own subconsciousnesses. And if Steely Dan make that obvious situation more obvious, it's because their sound is super-unfashionable, at least inasmuch as fashion ties itself to authenticity and "soul" and all those other words that don't seem, to the people that use them most, to need explaining. But the Dan abide, oblivious to that way of thinking, even calling out that way of thinking, not in any "we're smarter than you" way but by dint of the beautifulness of what they've done, the fact that they've made emotionally jolting music out of cynicism and artifice and remove...and yet that isn't all that their music is, because they make those dumb binaries look as dumb as they are. And there's no necessity to love them, but they do kind of require that you give up some of your extramusical prejudices, maybe. Which you don't have to do, which won't make you a better person, which doesn't fucking matter in the big scheme of things, but like all BIG artists they give you this challenge to open up yourself, just a little bit, and adopt uncomfortable (but potentially gorgeous) new perspectives.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 20:54 (twenty years ago)

Or alternatively, you could just have been a kid in the 70s hearing "Rikki Don't Lose that Nummber" on the beach (and hearing it as basically a sweet song) and hearing "Peg" on the car radio on the way home (and hearing it is a bright catchy pop song) while pleasantly exhausted, with sand still stuck in your bathing suit, and mostly take Steely Dan on those terms.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:13 (twenty years ago)

But I kind of tried to include that reading in what I was saying, R. My Steely love starts with "Reelin' in the Years" on the radio in the car as a kid in the 70s.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:15 (twenty years ago)

I like Rikki just fine, but the fact that I like "Radar Love" doesn't mean that I'm going to profess any deep abiding affection for Golden Earring. Further, I'd flip Noodle's statement— I have no real representational problem with SD, but most of the defenses here have associational justification for why they like SD. See Rockist above.

― js (honestengine), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:24 (twenty years ago)

I've got no such associations - I never heard the Dan as a kid.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:25 (twenty years ago)

js you're right and I didn't express that clearly: I don't think Dan are victims of extramusical prejudice, I think they work as a good test-case for all of our love of music having extramusical elements.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:28 (twenty years ago)

but most of the defenses here have associational justification for why they like SD

There have been other types of defenses given before, however (on other threads). My point was more that the punk vs. SD or the "but they are just coke-addled smooth jazz cynics" problem some people seem to have doesn't exist for me, and it's no stretch at all for me to like at least a lot of their songs. I liked them when I was a kid, so there must have been some non-nostalgic reason (and I didn't automatically like every single song I heard on the beach or on the car radio on the way home, but that did heighten the experience of hearing songs sometimes).

A lot of their songs are just crazily hooky, melodically great, and that sort of thing.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:32 (twenty years ago)

(I know it's lame to always make excuses here but I am getting ready to move--tomorrow!--and my brain is pretty fried. I should not be online at all WTF I should be packing a few last things.)

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:34 (twenty years ago)

pack not your dan, for they should be your shield as you venture out

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:36 (twenty years ago)

A lot of their songs are just crazily hooky, melodically great, and that sort of thing.

Word to that.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:37 (twenty years ago)

melodically great

Geir?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:39 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, let's just treat melody as the stepchild of music in typical ILM hive mind fashion!

:-)

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:41 (twenty years ago)

Let's dance!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:43 (twenty years ago)

I mean, I've always liked Steely Dan -- their proficient 70s AM slickness made me embarrassed to like them for a little while, since that sort of thing didn't seem too cool, but it was never a stumbling block to the actual visceral appreciation of the music itself.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:46 (twenty years ago)

I've been listening to my main reggaeton mix actually.

x-post:

Maybe there would have been a brief period of time when I would have been embarrassed to like them, but I don't think I paid any attention to them during that phase of my life.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:48 (twenty years ago)

I worked at a Bob's when I was a tender high school lad, and "Reelin' in the Years" was on our in-store radio.

My friend Justin is always telling me to listen to Aja.

This seems like a really happ'nin thread.

― M. Biondi (M. Biondi), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:48 (twenty years ago)

Seems like most of the Dan-directed vitriol (it's Muzak and slick... as if these were vices, but whatever) is directed at their post-Royal Scam work. Anyone who claims that SD, from Can't Buy A Thrill thru Katy Lied, didn't rawk in the most basic manner is deaf or, simply, full of shit.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:52 (twenty years ago)

"the fact that they've made emotionally jolting music out of cynicism and artifice and remove...and yet that isn't all that their music is, because they make those dumb binaries look as dumb as they are." this is rough, but - i've always thought of sd as men's camp which appealed to me in the same way but more personally than the camp i encountered must later i guess w/ gay culture.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:53 (twenty years ago)

also funny b/c the first time i heard it was in the auto section of sears at like 8 or so??. it was like being transported/released from THAT world of no frills and obvious meanings no interest in metaphors or whatever, but had a connection to it as well. i remember wondering what those guys were getting from it-why they thought it was cool/if they thought it was cool. and how you could enjoy it on so many levels..as witnessed here. but of course i thought mine was the right way!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:00 (twenty years ago)

Susan, you've touched on something I don't have the space or time to expand on. If by "male camp" you mean a slightly exaggerated machismo that's at the same feasting upon itself, then I definitely feel this sensibility in SD's work.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:04 (twenty years ago)

Like Dylan. Another artist that some people who listen to a lot of music can have a hard time liking. I didn't fall in love with Dylan until later in life. Same with Steely Dan. I always liked their songs on the radio, but I didn't start freaking out about them till my mid-20's.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:18 (twenty years ago)

that's part of it. and just how they take serious old institutions? in new non-good ol' boyish directions and give stylized/hyper-dramatized treatments. its in the lyrics and the music and the way he sings. like i don't think its pop informed by jazz etc. but more the other way around. and isn't he always talking about being at some Ivy League school in this ridiculous NY nasal accent and perfect straight love w/ extreme archetypes of femaleness and you feel like you're in the 50's/60's? but its totally nuts. i'm not really doing this justice, but -

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:22 (twenty years ago)

xpost!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:22 (twenty years ago)

Lynch Ian, yeah? Or a variation of the same thing - they have their cake and eat it, making beautiful pop that niggles at and reaffirms your belief in beautiful pop all at once.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:25 (twenty years ago)

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (soto.alfre...), Today.

susan douglas = steely dan

― lf (lfam), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:26 (twenty years ago)

ha!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:30 (twenty years ago)

OTM :(

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:31 (twenty years ago)

haha

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:38 (twenty years ago)

the wider implications of this are really depressing me. fuck you ilm.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:46 (twenty years ago)

What are trax where SD "rawk in the most basic manner?" If you tell me "Reelin' in the Years," I'm gonna think it's only because of the lead guitar.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:49 (twenty years ago)

"It" being the reason yer telling me this ...

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:50 (twenty years ago)

"Midnight Cruiser" rocks pretty hard.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:50 (twenty years ago)

But I don't know the albums! I hear "Reelin' in the Years" on the radio and I think it sounds like America w/ a little bit of a Thin Lizzy groove.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:51 (twenty years ago)

so does "Change of the Guard". And "Black Friday".

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:51 (twenty years ago)

x post

You say that like it's a bad thing, Tim.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:53 (twenty years ago)

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