The Runaways - classic or dud?

..

Warning: Braindump:

I can't judge Joan too harshly. I don't know the extent of Fowley's abuse of the rest of the band, but even emotional abuse at a young age can do a huge number on you, even in adulthood. And she stayed friends with him to the end, so her version of the past could well be pretty skewed.

But also, how the fuck *should* teenage girls handle seeing their bandmate assaulted by their manager. If she or Cherie blocked it out or laughed it off to get along they wouldnt be the first. There was not a single responsible adult influence in their lives at that time - whatever choices Joan or Cherie or Lita made were their own to survive the best way they knew how.

Joan has clearly put up a wall between herself & the past & she may never reckon with that part of her life. Maybe it's better for her if she doesnt. Joan survives; that's what she does best, and I think that wall is a lot of the reason why.

I cant and wont judge her b

Fair enough.

Hasn't Fowely's awfulness been well established for last 20 years or so? Wasn't there similar stories in Please Kill Me?

Wish the Twitter headlines for this had been more circumspect, and I bet I'm not the only one. If some social media intern realized that and decided in favor of clicks, god help them.

I now return you to discussion of the actual fucked up shit.

Real question (because I am old and dim) - is that what people mean when they say "trigger warning"? That reading the headline about the story can be traumatic? (Sorry, I know this sounds stupid but I've never really known what it means in context)

It means the content may be disturbing to some readers.

Booming post, VG.

Absolutely.

x-post; I guess I was wondering if Lukas means it can be upsetting reading the word in a headline, not knowing what the content is? Or were there some particularly graphic Twitter links? I am not being loaded with this - I guess I am wondering what the preferred way of linking to the story would be?

But also, how the fuck *should* teenage girls handle seeing their bandmate assaulted by their manager. If she or Cherie blocked it out or laughed it off to get along they wouldnt be the first. There was not a single responsible adult influence in their lives at that time - whatever choices Joan or Cherie or Lita made were their own to survive the best way they knew how.

VG super otm. not to mention that in 2015 there are still backlogs of rape kits waiting to be tested. not even the government is not doing its part to support victims of sexual violence who have done everything they were supposed to. and people want the runaways to answer for their silence? please.
there's a lot of work to be done wrt raising awareness of sexual assault and retroactively blaming joan, cherie, and/or lita for not acting on this horrific event is not a fruitful use of time or energy

this story upset me a lot.

(Sorry, another x-post)

Because I saw one person Tweet this: Incredible story: Jackie Fuchs, member of The Runaways, raped by Kim Fowley in front of witnesses with a link to the article...

And then a person in response Tweeted: this sensationalized headline is irresponsible, gross and triggering

Maybe I'm confused about the use of the word "headline"? The article's headline is The Lost Girls: One famous band. One huge secret. Many lives destroyed

Just trying to figure out where the first person went wrong in a way that was so upsetting to the respondee

I feel basically the same way as VG. I also respect whatever bitterness or betrayal Jackie feels toward the other band members. It's a bad situation all the way around.

One thing the story brings home (not that it's news, exactly) is how sleazy and exploitative so much of the "sexual revolution" was. Contraception and changing generational attitudes freed up women's sexuality, but it was still within the context of a culture where men had almost all of the real power. Which lots and lots of men freely abused, with little or no consequences.

It's horrible, I almost couldn't read it. It's irrational I know but it makes me annoyed about all those indie guys I used to know in Glasgow who thought this prick was really cool, some of them even played with him. The fact that he was a horrible prick was glossed over as him being a 'character'.

Story gave me the spins. I fucking hate men, just wipe us all out IMO. The hippie dream, the rock and roll dream, the sex lib dream, the mystical cosmic dream, they were all just opportunities for men to turn women and girls into property/victims/corpses all over again.

Little details that are fucking with me:

When she starts tearing up thinking about the last time she peacefully fell asleep *decades ago*

The replacement bassist listening to the band snickering about the rape

Fowley staying up all night pitching his custody arrangement to fox's mom

I apologize for the lack of emotional sobriety in that post

It just feels like maleness is this problem that's never gonna stop ruining everything and idk how to square it in my mind

one of the commenters on the article (in case you're wondering, the comments are somehow not awful) says that fowley allegedly tried to rape one of his band members in the '90s

I know that dude -- he's nuts, and it's not his story to tell. Not saying he's lying.

https://twitter.com/emilynussbaum/status/619130877130481664

emily nussbaum Verified account
‏@emilynussbaum

It actually lends a lot of context to the supposed "anti-sex" bent of some 70s feminist thought.

Didn't know this about Michael Steele (later of the Bangles), who preceded Fox:

Steele's departure from the group has been given several interpretations—her own account being that she was fired by svengali-like manager Kim Fowley for refusing his sexual propositions and calling the band's debut single "Cherry Bomb" stupid.[10] Fowley would further denigrate her for blowing a chance at fame and not possessing sufficient "magic" or "megalo" to make it in the music industry.[10]

Horrible, ghastly stuff. Really upsetting. vg otm, the band seems to have existed in a constant state of terror and intimidation. All trapped in a place of utter powerlessness.

This guy is scum. We can pick apart what this means and what that means, is it the sexual revolution, or it is the power of the 70s rock n roll fantasy? Ultimately it is this one guy is a piece of shit, no excuses.

The quotes from magazine reviews were gross as hell.

So brave for her to come out w this. I can't help but think the more these type of stories come out the more people will actually try and do something about this.

I know that dude -- he's nuts, and it's not his story to tell. Not saying he's lying.

― Three Word Username, Friday, July 10, 2015 11:24 AM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I know exactly zero about that dude, just telling imo that the comments are not full of "how do we know this is true" but "here are more examples"

One thing the story brings home (not that it's news, exactly) is how sleazy and exploitative so much of the "sexual revolution" was.

yeah. the sexual revolutio wouldn't have happened without feminism but it was men who really profited from it and exploited it in the biggest way.

This guy is scum. We can pick apart what this means and what that means, is it the sexual revolution, or it is the power of the 70s rock n roll fantasy? Ultimately it is this one guy is a piece of shit, no excuses.

fowley was certainly *more* of a piece of shit than a lot of other guys, but there's no "ultimately" about it when women (and girls, and gay men, and trans people who identify however they identify, and yeah, a few straight men too) continue to be raped every day.

i keep starting to read this and then remembering that the last couple times i read in-depth stories about abuse it basically ruined my week and i spent the next few days unable to stop dwelling on the horrible details and thinking thoughts similar to the ones jon lewis describes.

i remember reading something similar to this about fowley years ago -- probably in please kill me. the details are dim since it's been probably 15 years since i read that book, but they nauseated me enough that i was kind of shocked to see a few ppl on my fb feed going "rip, what a cool guy!" when he died.

he was involved in some cool things/made some good stuff happen. he was also abusive and cruel and fairly evil. these are not mutually exclusive.

dude I got love for you but you know you make that point every time somebody's revealed to be a shitheel, right? like, everybody knows that, it doesn't mean they have to just go "oh, shitty people make great music a lot, whatevs"

I'm just sayin it explains why ppl said things like "RIP" when Fowley died

why would you want that guy to rest in peace though?

are we stuck in some sort of loop here

i can enjoy music without wanting its creator to have a pleasant afterlife, so no. i like a few things fowley did but he can rot in hell.

the sexual revolutio wouldn't have happened without feminism but it was men who really profited from it and exploited it in the biggest way.

???

I read the sexual revolution not as an outgrowth of capitalist patriarchy but rather the mainstream breakthrough of a variety of oppressed/suppressed perspectives from marginalized groups. The success of the sexual revolution is mass awareness and mass communication of these issues. These critical, marginalized perspectives are valid even - especially - in the face of patriarchal exploitation.

can we have more women posting itt pls

you don't even have to be an ally or a "good" feminist, just post

Just talking about how men may have exploited it doesn't necessarily mean you're aligning it with capitalist patriarchy.

can we have more women posting itt pls

― A Smedley Adoption (get bent), Friday, July 10, 2015 8:10 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Can I just say you're OTM for now?

yes.

I posted and said what I had to say -- dwelling on it too much is not good for my mental health :-/

"sexual revolution" debate (I agree w get bent on this pt fwiw) maybe worthy of its own ILE thread...?

Can I just say you're OTM for now?
― from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha)

I was going to post a longer, more personal, more TMI answer, but this is the wisest path, yes

(also the one that does not sound like I presume my personal micro-disappointments compare to this really sad story. sorry Jackie, sorry Krome, sorry even to those whose only psychological defence against this horror was to act like it wasn't happening and might've been funny if it were happening. what else can you do when you're that age and that powerless and that wrapped up in a crazy fairytale, with nobody outside the fairytale to talk to?)

Yeah VG, LL, passing spacecadet have all been really really otm in here. I saw a couple news headlines on FB talking about the article (SPIN being a big example) which seemed to trump up the Jett-as-witness angle as if the whole point of the article was to tarnish Jett's image. Super NAGL imo

Joan Jett has released a formal statement.

Anyone who truly knows me understands that if I was aware of a friend or bandmate being violated, I would not stand by while it happened. For a group of young teenagers thrust into 70s rock stardom there were relationships that were bizarre, but I was not aware of this incident. Obviously Jackie’s story is extremely upsetting and although we haven’t spoken in decades, I wish her peace and healing.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/840-journalist-jason-cherkis-discusses-his-investigation-into-kim-fowley-rape-allegations/

Wow, I was just coming here to post that!

also https://populismblog.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/statement-on-the-lost-girls

From McDonnell's piece:

Although I did not know him at all, I attempted to help him as a colleague. In return, he exploited my research in his article and has repeatedly attacked me online.

What has he been saying about McDonnell?

Regardless, this is totally depressing and sad.

Him = Jason Cherkis, the author of the HP piece.

From his PF interview, it sounds like he had to lie/obfuscate often to avoid revealing the true subject of the article - tricky, but a little understandable since doing it clean, the victim would've been outed before the article came out

a problem for me is cognitively is that this man has always been awful, has never made much effort to disguise it ... and just existed in the world raping girls on tables or wherever because... he had power?
And the Cosby thing keeps biting my heels as i think this all through. Because he was outwardly pleasant and beloved yet behaved equally horribly but under a veil of secrecy and pay offs. because he had some sort of power.
The victims outnumber these fucking asshole garbagepeople. how can their collective voices and confessions and testimony *not* be more powerful than the perceived power of their abusers. They should be pariahs for their weakness long before this level if damage is done

i dunno that line of thinking is such a rabbithole of whyyyyyyyyyy it makes me so sad and crazy

and then theres this:

the runaways had power. have power. all collectively they are like a face melting blitzkrieg of attitude and power and brilliance. but as i think it all through in the middle of the night i'm tempted to tease out what the nature of that power and where it came from and i dont WANT to. i dont want to attribute THEIR power to him. to believe that they are the "result" of his violent evil alchemy. i dont think i believe that and i cant but i know that that is what this story will now start leading people to believe even more than they did before

braindumping. i dunno. its late i should maybe just go to sleep