♥☮☯♫ PC MUSIC ♫☯☮♥ ☺☺☺ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°✌

i guess the question is what is endangered?

a whole generation of bright-eyed progressives fighting the wrong battles? lol

i feel that ilx at its best does a good job of making me (and others) tease out the ideology from the aesthetic, and requires honesty when it comes to projecting distasteful politics and ideology onto things that i dislike aesthetically, because bad politics and ideology make for stronger arguments as to something's repellence. And vice versa, when it comes to excusing repellent ideological connotations of things i like aesthetically.

This thread is far far far from ilx at its best.

Hmmm... disagree, this thread is mainly about the things you apparently value about ILM. Last time I checked, the discussion of PC Music here is primarily about their cultural politics and aesthetics.

Also, please explain how condemnation of casual racism is reactionary and conservative, idgi.

there are a number of posters on this thread who are couching their dislike in statements like "art student blather" and various assumptions about "contempt" and industry-related things and what thinkpieces have been written. there are others that are honest and straightforward about what they like and what they don't like, and some ambivalence. I think the questioning of whether someone can "authentically" find this music "fun" was a low point.

reactionary and conservative comment had nothing to do with the racism -- pertained to the thread prior to that

i just looked up the ten walls thing and man, that's a whole other ballgame

Yeah, the Ten Walls thing is really vile. I was unfortunately a bit obsessed with it yesterday, like disaster tourism.

re: sarahell - OK, still don't get what's reactionary and conservative - unless you're suggesting that PC Music is somehow progressive...

thanks for putting it so well, sarahell - and yes, entirely agree that ilx's ideological catechism can help to frame aesthetics in a more coherent and insightful way, and even help to shape them - it has done so for me, and i'm very grateful

I was unfortunately a bit obsessed with it yesterday, like disaster tourism.

like watching a man's career being fed slowly through the chipper

It's also a question of which artists are awarded respect/credibility almost by default and which artists have to "earn" it - straight white dudes who went to art school are almost always in the former camp (initially at least, it can always be taken away). It's neither reactionary nor conservative to want to interrogate that, especially if it's coming from gay black artists (almost always in the latter group).

The Ten Walls thing is worse because that's just pure, deeply-felt hatred.

obv it behooves us to interrogate the critical/popular discourse surrounding minority artists but if we're going to do it in such a spectacularly thick way then it's rather an own-goal imo

or am i advocating respectability politics or something idk w/e peace

idk anything about pc music, but sarahell & lj otm that this is unhelpful dichotomization, for multiple reasons:

queer/poc
genuine expressions of emotion or feeling
——————
straight white
conceptual/ art project

"straight white" is that fancy espresso drink you guys are always drinking over there, right?

this thread sure is hard to follow

PoC Music

there are a number of posters on this thread who are couching their dislike in statements like "art student blather" and various assumptions about "contempt" and industry-related things and what thinkpieces have been written. there are others that are honest and straightforward about what they like and what they don't like, and some ambivalence. I think the questioning of whether someone can "authentically" find this music "fun" was a low point.

reactionary and conservative comment had nothing to do with the racism -- pertained to the thread prior to that

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Tuesday, June 9, 2015 5:54 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not even going to touch 90% of the latest fun developments in this barrel-o-fun thread, but it doesn't make someone automatically dishonest if what they like and dislike is informed by industry-related things, or what they've read, or even art student blather (which I do have time for, to a point!) disingenuous, maybe, but I don't see that here.

though it's probably a mistake to ask for much after someone compared a facebook post to jihad

do you know what jihad means

Do you?

struggle iirc

good work wikipedia brown

lj, you know lotic's own work is highly conceptual (while also being visceral, heartfelt, etc).

I might check it out, hopefully it's a bit more thought-through than his facebook rants

katherine I've been tutoring a kid in GCSE religious studies, no fronting ffs

"rants"

his/her/their idk

lex that is a rant & that is the nicest way to frame it because we all say dumb shit when we're angry

I couldn't tell you were angry

More rants from Lotic please, don't care if the semantics of the rhetoric don't add up to all-things-being-equal, master's tools etc.

The fact that ILX — an 11-year-old site that lived through chillwave and witch house — engaged with this garbage at all is some real "fool me thrice, shame on us all"

Like, you all knew how this story would end, right?

All stories end with WGW saying "told you so"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Don't worry, these cretinous yawpers will disappear once their gap yah's over

I like their music. It is fun. Wouldn't listen to it every day though. Racists and homophobes can do one.

lotic's third para is seriously pissing me off

this binarising of music that is 'vapid and conceptual' and music that is 'reserved for genuine expressions of emotion and feeling' strikes me as terribly reductive and even dangerous, especially when there's an implicit parallel along racial and sexual lines

extremely dismissive ('merely a vapid art school project by a handful of rich kids') and maybe that's to be expected after an incident of racial idiocy and apparently unchecked privilege but this argument makes me deeply uncomfortable. i get that it's subjective but i also don't get how liking pc music is at the expense of real music by real poc or queers? plenty of listening to go around in 2k15

― the discussions, the slanging matches, the banter, the lot (imago), Tuesday, 9 June 2015 09:21 (6 hours ago)

idk who lotic is, or what music he or anyone else would hold as being antinomial to pc music

even so he is clearly particularizing his argument to pc music and whichever other fellow travellers in the world of conceptual minstrelsy

he even makes a defence of 'conceptualism' in the general instance to make this clear

so whilst you can say the art/soul vapid/real divide is usually fatuous, which it is, in this instance he is describing it does rather seem to hold; racist idiots get admiring copy while music he likes doesn't

music without a single leaf or branch is bound to involve self-importance and racism, this is why its best to steer clear of larger urban areas and hope they dont pollute the rivers or canals with it. As they have unlimited amounts of money there is very little we can do to protect ourselves from their presence

Do you guys have a vetting system, like a ticklist or something you do before you check out a piece of music?

Yes

If i have read about it or heard someone talk about it, then it is garbage

invariably

its best just not to know

lex that is a rant & that is the nicest way to frame it because we all say dumb shit when we're angry

― the discussions, the slanging matches, the banter, the lot (imago), Tuesday, 9 June 2015 15:11 (40 minutes ago)

no it isn't, his tone is mostly quite equable, he gets less 'pissed off' about racism and marginalization than you do about the (largely mistaken) belief that the shit 'conceptual' music you like is being written off en masse

Remember when four brown people made experimental electronic music earlier this year, and it was written off months before this racist pachinko machine music

Also, love the fake outrage and shame from Vice, who literally made $1.5B off the back of like a decade of ironic racism

no defending Vice, or GFOTY's humour choices

What four brown ppl?

i think they go by Present Brown now

Don't the same people who like Future Brown like PC Music, roughly speaking? Lex hates both of them at any rate, and for similar reasons.

also nakh I'm not getting pissed off about that, I'm getting pissed off because of what I see as pernicious trends in cultural argument regarding authenticity and emotion. the best pc music stuff makes me feel great and it is not liked for its 'intellectual properties', it is just rly thrilling for me

Anyway Future Brown is boring while PC Music is annoying. Crucial difference.

PC music isn't very PC

Can't we have a world where we can like PC Music and Dawn Richard

no

PC Music, Dawn Richard and Depeche Mode