♥☮☯♫ PC MUSIC ♫☯☮♥ ☺☺☺ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°✌

orson-welles-slow-clap.gif

oh haha i thought someone had registered that dn name for the sake of the gag but .. ru actually james brooks?

who's james brooks

lmao

*stands and applauds lotic*

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHAH4-AVIAAlMrk.png

Ten Walls was probably as big as any European house producer among black British audiences - Walking With Elephants in particular gained traction in places you would never have expected an Innervisions related producer to.

But then he's not particularly high concept either and there was nothing ironic about what he said, he's just a bigot and a cretin.

lotic isn't talking about ten walls except as an aside?

He conflates them together in a few places and they shouldn't really be except as examples of basically inconsequential musicians saying bigoted shit.

pretty sure you can explore a concept and genuinely express emotion and/or feeling at the same time. There's so much false dichotomizing in this thread.

lotic's third para is seriously pissing me off

this binarising of music that is 'vapid and conceptual' and music that is 'reserved for genuine expressions of emotion and feeling' strikes me as terribly reductive and even dangerous, especially when there's an implicit parallel along racial and sexual lines

extremely dismissive ('merely a vapid art school project by a handful of rich kids') and maybe that's to be expected after an incident of racial idiocy and apparently unchecked privilege but this argument makes me deeply uncomfortable. i get that it's subjective but i also don't get how liking pc music is at the expense of real music by real poc or queers? plenty of listening to go around in 2k15

oh sarahell said exactly the same thing lol

"who doesn't know who toumani diabeté is?"

hm

anyway, hands up if you have ever listened to elvis costello

ppl like lotic prolly need to drop any pretence of balanced analysis and admit that they're fighting jihad

is that supposed to be balanced analysis, though? it reads like preaching to the choir, which presumably it is, being a social media post?

But the fifth paragraph is basically saying he isn't making that false binary.

while continuing to make it, yeah

I get that it's important to consider the feelings of wounded art-school pranksters here.

god art-school pranksters, up there with Hitler in terms of people with whom we shouldn't associate right?

#notallartschoolpranksters

Objective Achieved

it just amazes me how reactionary and conservative ilx can be.

The thing is, you're turning his justified outrage against racist and homophobic comments into an opportunity to get defensive about people who, unless they are actually Ten Walls or a member of PC Music, aren't even under attack. He's allowed not to be interested in music by straight white people.

no one is getting defensive here, Matt. No one here is defending Ten Walls or GFOTY. lex posted a screenshot of lotic's post saying it was otm, and lj and I disagreed with some of what was said. Also, how it mirrors various opinions that have posed a lot of false dichotomies and binaries.

that have been posed in this thread.

(That was really addressed to LJ, using words like "dangerous" in this context when really it's anything but)

i think any kind of blanket bias & propagation of cultural false binaries is dangerous, especially when it leads to the implicit demonisation of stuff i like ;)

i guess the question is what is endangered?

a whole generation of bright-eyed progressives fighting the wrong battles? lol

i feel that ilx at its best does a good job of making me (and others) tease out the ideology from the aesthetic, and requires honesty when it comes to projecting distasteful politics and ideology onto things that i dislike aesthetically, because bad politics and ideology make for stronger arguments as to something's repellence. And vice versa, when it comes to excusing repellent ideological connotations of things i like aesthetically.

This thread is far far far from ilx at its best.

Hmmm... disagree, this thread is mainly about the things you apparently value about ILM. Last time I checked, the discussion of PC Music here is primarily about their cultural politics and aesthetics.

Also, please explain how condemnation of casual racism is reactionary and conservative, idgi.

there are a number of posters on this thread who are couching their dislike in statements like "art student blather" and various assumptions about "contempt" and industry-related things and what thinkpieces have been written. there are others that are honest and straightforward about what they like and what they don't like, and some ambivalence. I think the questioning of whether someone can "authentically" find this music "fun" was a low point.

reactionary and conservative comment had nothing to do with the racism -- pertained to the thread prior to that

i just looked up the ten walls thing and man, that's a whole other ballgame

Yeah, the Ten Walls thing is really vile. I was unfortunately a bit obsessed with it yesterday, like disaster tourism.

re: sarahell - OK, still don't get what's reactionary and conservative - unless you're suggesting that PC Music is somehow progressive...

thanks for putting it so well, sarahell - and yes, entirely agree that ilx's ideological catechism can help to frame aesthetics in a more coherent and insightful way, and even help to shape them - it has done so for me, and i'm very grateful

I was unfortunately a bit obsessed with it yesterday, like disaster tourism.

like watching a man's career being fed slowly through the chipper

It's also a question of which artists are awarded respect/credibility almost by default and which artists have to "earn" it - straight white dudes who went to art school are almost always in the former camp (initially at least, it can always be taken away). It's neither reactionary nor conservative to want to interrogate that, especially if it's coming from gay black artists (almost always in the latter group).

The Ten Walls thing is worse because that's just pure, deeply-felt hatred.

obv it behooves us to interrogate the critical/popular discourse surrounding minority artists but if we're going to do it in such a spectacularly thick way then it's rather an own-goal imo

or am i advocating respectability politics or something idk w/e peace

idk anything about pc music, but sarahell & lj otm that this is unhelpful dichotomization, for multiple reasons:

queer/poc
genuine expressions of emotion or feeling
——————
straight white
conceptual/ art project

"straight white" is that fancy espresso drink you guys are always drinking over there, right?

this thread sure is hard to follow

PoC Music

there are a number of posters on this thread who are couching their dislike in statements like "art student blather" and various assumptions about "contempt" and industry-related things and what thinkpieces have been written. there are others that are honest and straightforward about what they like and what they don't like, and some ambivalence. I think the questioning of whether someone can "authentically" find this music "fun" was a low point.

reactionary and conservative comment had nothing to do with the racism -- pertained to the thread prior to that

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Tuesday, June 9, 2015 5:54 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not even going to touch 90% of the latest fun developments in this barrel-o-fun thread, but it doesn't make someone automatically dishonest if what they like and dislike is informed by industry-related things, or what they've read, or even art student blather (which I do have time for, to a point!) disingenuous, maybe, but I don't see that here.

though it's probably a mistake to ask for much after someone compared a facebook post to jihad

do you know what jihad means

Do you?

struggle iirc

good work wikipedia brown

lj, you know lotic's own work is highly conceptual (while also being visceral, heartfelt, etc).

I might check it out, hopefully it's a bit more thought-through than his facebook rants

katherine I've been tutoring a kid in GCSE religious studies, no fronting ffs