R. Kelly - "Trapped In The Closet"

I mean, I like people falling on their asses as much as the next guy.

"I'm sure you do, as long as they're eating fried chicken and watermelon."

That's not just beneath you, it's beneath this whole damn board.

just curious then, why is Trapped In The Closet trumpeted for its comic genius and not Soul Plane? I assume you think both are minstrel shows.

Also, shouldn't blame for any irono-condescening white people TITC luv be placed at the feet of the irono-condescending white people, rather than R. Kelly?

I'm not blaming R Kelly and I don't know that Dan neccessarily is either (or at any rate, that Dan is blaming R Kelly MORE than the white people who propagate that shit) but I'm not going to answer for him.

That's it exactly. I hate the way the phrase "minstrel show” is being casually thrown around.

I don't see any intentional mockery of blackness in TITC. It's buffoonish, sure, and people are definitely responding to that. But it's also really fucking bizarre in a way that has nothing to do with race.

Maybe some white people ARE getting crypto-racist laffs out of it. I dunno. But that doesn't make it a damn minstrel show.

It isn't fair to bring that kind of language into it.

I thought that was yr. point above.

Anyway, "minstrel show" really is similar to "Hitler", as Cheesesteak deliciously pointed out above. It's too loaded to be useful in a debate. It distorts and unbalances things.

There's something sticky in here that I can't quite parse (no sarcasm).

Deej, I realize that was a gut reaction on Dan's part, but there's no reason why the convictions behind that impulse shouldn't be explored.

(xpost)

Calling these videos a minstrel show implies that there is something shameful about them....at your own self-revealing risk

As long as we're talking about this, I'm amazed that the Blowfly thread escaped this kind of breakdown. His cachet among white folks seems WAAAAAY more suspicious to me...

This is silly. Everyone gets so defensive when someone mentions that word. Its like, 'must...find...non...racist...footing.' "I'm not a racist, thats whats so insane about this." etc

I don't see why the audience's reaction isn't a legitimate part of a critique of an artist/piece of art. They're not seperate - or rather, they're not seperate when you're talking 'minstrelsy'. I can't really argue Dan's perspective because he didn't elucidate much beyond it but to me its entirely reasonable to be critical of R Kelly or the song because of the way that song is received. And incidently, "minstrel show" is about calling on a certain tradition that is tied in with racism. So its a pretty broad descriptor and people seem to respond to what they ASSUME he's saying. Welcome to america etc

Still, at this pt. TITC is bad and boring.

One of the things said upthread was that people are pointing and laughing, saying Kelly is being 'unintentionally funny', and that this too is patronising. Neither my friends nor I know whether he knows what he's doing, but we debate it, and I really don't think that the people who claim it to be accidental are undermining the man whatsoever (whether he deserves to be undermined personally is a different issue).

Essentially, I may be missing something as a Britisher - some of the arguments seem to have revolved around US issues that I have no conception of - but the point is that this production is just great; the music works, the plot is hilarious and engaging, and I can't see one reason for people to not like it.

Exit, stage left...

I called it a minstrel show because, in my opinion, the entire thing is playing up to and pandering to a particular image that can be encapsulated by the sentence "R. Kelly is one crazy nigga!" As I said earlier, you can go ahead and watch that if you want to but, personally, I think it's some bullshit that cannot be divorced from some extremely ugly racial overtones.

FIN

pandering to a particular image that can be encapsulated by the sentence "R. Kelly is one crazy nigga!"

Yeah maybe. Hard to say. I'm drawn to R. Kelly because he seems to combine a very successful craftmanship, churning out strings of brilliant singles, as well as a sense of experimentation quite different from what's expected in the genre he's working in. I loved R. Kelly before TITC and I probably don't need to hear it again, but I still think it's pretty cool of him to try out stuff like that (and that he dresses up as Zorro for award shows).

x-post; and yes, I think that's part of the thing too. TITC does seem extraordinarily dumb, and the audaciousness of it's dumbness is what made me revive the thread. There's a midget in a cupboard having an affair with a policeman's wife?!

Yes. And it's no big deal.

Plus, R. Kelly genuinely does seem to be one crazy ... ummm, R&B celebrity. This makes his "I'm so craaaaaazy!" schtick a lot easier to swallow.