Pavement:Classic or Dud

otm cpl593h

I'd say all had a universal sense of emotion in their writing. it all had a bit of nihilism, a bit of romantic disarray, some snotty rebellion.

they all transcended their eras by writing incredible songs and continue to serve as a soundtrack for the loners of the world

xp - that was my bloodline through high school and college -- i'm the older brother only i don't have any younger siblings and i'm not a man.
i liked pavement back in the day -- they didn't write stupid love songs and were kinda funny and i liked how noisy they were. i barely remember caring about terror twilight but they were there for me when i needed them.

debris slide!

lol

Slacker lineage starts w Dylan.

that was my bloodline through high school and college -- i'm the older brother only i don't have any younger siblings and i'm not a man.
i liked pavement back in the day -- they didn't write stupid love songs and were kinda funny and i liked how noisy they were. i barely remember caring about terror twilight but they were there for me when i needed them.

I remember looking forward to buying TT on the day of release. In the 2000s though technical and vocal prowess started interesting me, so of course my affections was worn down. But I don't want Booker T and the MGs from them either..

the stuff Chilton is doing on his guitar here is proto-Pavement to the fullest. plus the ironic Jerry Lee Lewis jacket. the guy was ahead of his time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCyqODUveRI

!!! didn't even know that existed

Pavement evolved from a shroud of mythical obscurity which I think would be very hard to replicate in these times...

This is OTM. For that first couple years, even for a bit after Slanted and Enchanted, they were really obscure and hard to find any information on at all. I can't see how that can be replicated now that the Information Superhighway is here.

the same obscurity helped New Order.

Unknown Mortal Orchestra successfully pulled it off for a minute.

I love Chilton but the most obvious Big Star DNA on a Pavement record is the intro to "Silence Kit" which is an homage/lift of a Bell penned/played riff.

believe me it's super-easy to be obscure - the trick is to be obscure and still have people interested in you

obscurity isn't really interesting to people anymore

Shabazz Palaces first couple EPs did a pretty good job of stirring up interest under a veil of obscurity. Although I guess not really at the level of, like an S+E review on SPIN Magazine or w/e.

this is also how I would describe Grimes pre-Oblivion

I'm sure in SP's case various media outlets cooperated/assisted because of Butler's previous projects.

idk about Grimes

I love Chilton but the most obvious Big Star DNA on a Pavement record is the intro to "Silence Kit" which is an homage/lift of a Bell penned/played riff.

That's gotta be "Feel", right? The way Crooked rain kicks off has always reminded me of #1 Record.

people always talk about pavement as being so insincere and arch and ironic and stuff but i dunno a lot of their music conjured and conjures a real deep feeling of melancholy with me

they seemed to exist in the fading hours of a late summer day, the feeling suddenly in the air that fall was nearly here

yeah as a teenager i definitely related to them more than, say, pearl jam, who people would've probably pointed to (at the time anyway) as a band with "heart."
feel like pavement also communicated some of the simple pleasures of being in a band w/ your friends. what does it mean, a mistake or two?

people always talk about pavement as being so insincere and arch and ironic and stuff but i dunno a lot of their music conjured and conjures a real deep feeling of melancholy with me

they seemed to exist in the fading hours of a late summer day, the feeling suddenly in the air that fall was nearly here

― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, April 14, 2015 3:32 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree but at the same time Pavement's front man could certainly read as distant and aloof, esp in a live setting, (lord knows that's what he seemed like when I saw them) and I think a lot of people keyed off of that.

I don't think they were insincere I just think they expressed genuine emotions in a prickly manner and that fucks with people.

esp in a live setting,

ain't that the truth. when they were on, they were ON, but there are only a couple people I can think of who I've seen display a greater contempt/disregard for their audience (and funnily enough one of those was Billy Corgan)

The Pavement show I saw was the start of a tour and it was clear they didn't know the songs and Malkmus was being very Malkmus-y and I just walked out and ignored their music for a long time.

Billy Corgan at least provoked some ice throwing ("Hey the next person who throws ice and we'll leave!" cue the entire room throwing everything that wasn't nailed down at them)

Like 90% of dudes in bands are aloof afaik

they seemed to exist in the fading hours of a late summer day

my feeling too

There's not one other group where I esteem one album SO highly (Slanted & Enchanted) and am SO indifferent to nearly all the rest of their output. For example, I tried to like Brighten the Corners and just found it dead. Didn't even give Wowie Zowie much of a chance, and I know that record is considered quirky and fun. I like but did not go crazy for the early ep stuff - forklift is pretty good

I don't know, maybe when it's all old it will all sound great, that kind of thing happened with the album Fear of Music, which changed my life for a time and then for years bored me whenever I tried it, but now it sounds great again (first side anyway).

I started by seeing Pavement in ABQ in 1994, having not heard one single song, going only on the hype in the village voice, and as a 30 year old I was one of the older people there (but only by five years or so). I enjoyed the show (ftr they were nice to the crowd at Golden West Saloon), and picked up Crooked Rain....played that album a lot that year (not as much as Mellow Gold however, which is still great). And then wow did that Crooked Rain lose its flavor! I think I'd still like 'range roving with the cinema stars' & heaven is a truck. The rest has sounded mannered to me since at least 1996, when I finally spent the bucks on the by-then-legendary Slanted Enchanted. Only song I liked the first listen was "Here."

S & E never never fails, that's a rock record man, & the sound on that record makes a mockery of the concept of "lo-fi" - it's FI all right, and what it is is FI-ing HIGH. "Jackals, False Grails", "Perfume-V", "Trigger Cut" probs my faves these days, but I don't even skip the filler. Sometimes I skip "Here".

A sentence such as "Zurich is stained and it's not my fault" is precisely the kind of sentence that sums up being stoned: grandiose and vulnerable.

I do love and consider absolutely first rate the song "Cream of Gold" though --- is there anything else that epic? Maybe I should listen to that whole album?

Dude you shoul definitely give Wowee Zowee another chance. That's their best besides Slanted and Enchanted. And the Watery, Domestic EP that came in between S+E and Crooked Rain is perfect.

If you want a Pavement epic, try Grounded on Wowee Zowee.

"I liked Pavement in the 90s, but I didn't typically elevate them above all others (I saved that honor for Archers of Loaf)..."

I'd agree except I would go with The Grifters as my favorite. I listened to plenty of Pavement, Sebadoh, Superchunk, Silkworm, Palace, Red Red Meat etc. back in those days.

super interesting revive

this band parallels some of my life experiences I guess, I grew up in the same town where Maklmus DJd in college, but I went to college elsewhere (he's just over 3 months older than me). post-college a mutual friend of ours told me to get Slay Tracks so I did, kept up with them through Slanted and then lost interest a bit until hearing Wowee Zowee (which imo is their best LP proper). Then I lost track again. But the run from Demolition Plot through the post-Slanted singles was one of the defining musical things of the early 90's to me. Crooked Rain seemed like a retread at the time, now I like it just fine. Still haven't heard the later ones although I have heard bits of Malkmus and Spiral over the years. The music feels like an old friend, yeah summer of '91 was a good time.

it's nice that they've stayed relevant. I think their unpredictable stylistic shifts and generally solid lyrics make up for the at times transparent influence-copping. when I used to throw Slanted on after its release, my GF would say "everything sounds like The Fall or The Velvet Underground" which might not be totally fair but was not an unheard criticism at the time iirc.

my personal indie pantheon of the early 90's would be these guys, Unrest, Sebadoh, and the Xpressway stuff.

I've never quite understood the comparison between Slanted and the Fall. And people make it so emphatically, like it's (or parts of it are) the most obvious Fall rip imaginable. Weird, since I like both bands.

they only really got good on CRCR in my book. before that it was just a mess.

xpost. It doesn't sound much like The Fall, but the cover art is Fall inspired, one song *is* a straight up Fall rip off (Conduit for Sale), and another takes the drums from Hip Priest (Our Singer). Two States is pretty Fall like. That's probably enough to justify the comparison. I also liked Archers of Loaf/Grifters/Unrest better than Pavement, but Pavement had a more wide-ranging set of influences so I think it's easier for people to find something to like.

I first heard about Pavement senior of high school in 1999, and I must admit Terror Twilight was the first thing I heard from them, and I loved it. I actually listened to it the other day and still enjoyed it, although I can't tell if it's just nostalgia. It's not my favorite Pavement record (probably Crooked Rain), but I feel Malmus' guitar is pretty on point throughout. Maybe it's better imagining it as a Malkmus solo record? that's all I got.

It's funny hearing about these 90s indie bands that feel through the cracks for me during that time, like Grifters, Unrest, Palace etc. I remember reading Spin frequently in the late 90s and getting a sense that the only indie bands that "mattered" according to them were Pavement, Sebadoh, and GBV.

The Pavement show I saw was the start of a tour and it was clear they didn't know the songs and Malkmus was being very Malkmus-y and I just walked out and ignored their music for a long time.

Billy Corgan at least provoked some ice throwing ("Hey the next person who throws ice and we'll leave!" cue the entire room throwing everything that wasn't nailed down at them)

― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, April 14, 2015 8:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha where were the shows?

that was my bloodline through high school and college -- i'm the older brother only i don't have any younger siblings and i'm not a man.
i liked pavement back in the day -- they didn't write stupid love songs and were kinda funny and i liked how noisy they were. i barely remember caring about terror twilight but they were there for me when i needed them.

I remember looking forward to buying TT on the day of release. In the 2000s though technical and vocal prowess started interesting me, so of course my affections was worn down. But I don't want Booker T and the MGs from them either..

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 April 2015 18:11 (Yesterday) Permalink

Alfred, me too - I even remember the store, and who I was there with.

Franklin, thanks for that post.

thanks for the tip kornrulez I will give WZ a real chance, and I missed Watery Domestic altogether

With Pavement, I'd say some of the sensibility, humour, irony and so on is specifically 90s, but their best work transcends that. I think their appeal is probably less dependent on context than, say, Nirvana's is.

ehh i feel like they embody a really specific hot central valley california delta vibe but i have a hard time articulating why.

musically, anyway

feel like pavement also communicated some of the simple pleasures of being in a band w/ your friends. what does it mean, a mistake or two?

This needs to be quoted for emphasis. So true. A lack of interest in careerism endlessly mistaken for "slacker"-ness.

What a brilliant, one-of-a-kind band.

"Grounded" is the definitely the one song to me that elicits the strongest image of being stoned on a porch at 14 in love/hate with the world

it was more a romantic vision of suburbia then something tied specifically to California

They sold enough records and developed enough of a rep (and were forced onto many second-generation listeners) that they will likely always have a certain cache for uninitiated listeners. You might say the same thing About The Fall in that while "of" a particular generation they are arguably a far less accessible band. Like it or not, Pavement are a musical touchstone, and will likely remain so for several more decades. The did the noise and tip his shit but also some of the sweetest of melodies. Also, like Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli said above, Malkmus is still making records, and he remains a reliable and gratifying source of music.

The observation that Pavement were never really mainstream is only another bonus; not only do i NOT want to hear "Cut Your Hair" on the radio, his lack of mass appeal may force him to keep making fresh material just to pay the bills (as it were) - and i'll take that any day of the week.

Random thought: If anybody out there knows of or is a youngster who is getting into Radiohead for the first time, explore a bit of the impact of a producer and take a listen to what Nigel Godrich did with "The Hexx" --- more moodiness, less whinniness.

Used to wash dishes at the pizza place I worked in high school while listening to CRCR, and then later rollerbladed with my friends in the parking lot of the pizza place I worked in high school while listening to Wowee Zowee. Later albums lacked the immediacy of those two, presumably because I was no longer working at the pizza place I worked in high school, which felt like the ideal backdrop for Pavement songs.

first listen on npr, the early stuff, 30 absolutely gorgeous songs from before "cut your hair". this very secial band was really ingenious. how they melded abrasive guitars with meandering songs, brittle tunes and a great vocal delivery still leaves me speechless.
The Secret History Vol 1

This is super lazy of me but is there anything on there that isn't on Luxe & Redux?

nope it's all just the bonus stuff from that reish.

ty Tyler!

http://www.vulture.com/2015/08/kannberg-favorite-pavement-songs.html

Spiral picks his 10 favorites.

yeah i don't understand this reissue at all besides ~VINYL~ which i mean hey if it's an excuse for ppl to hear this for the first time, awesome!

I might get the Crooked Rain era one tbh - no way was I ever going to buy the reissues on CD cuz fuck CDs but it'd be nice to have the extras and on vinyl too. the only Pavement vinyl I have is Brighten the Corners and Terror Twilight.