Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

The protagonist in that song basically says "you don't have a pretty face but I don't care; you're a great person and that means more to me". Most people wouldn't be that blunt, it's true, but I don't see how it could be seen as bullying or harassment. If anything, the fact that it seems mean probably reflects the amount of importance we place on a woman's appearance. (It wouldn't seem as harsh if a woman sang it to a man, I don't think.)

That little Clampett got his own cement pond
That little Clampett, he's a millionaire

The protagonist in that song basically says "you don't have a pretty face but I don't care; you're a great person and that means more to me". Most people wouldn't be that blunt, it's true, but I don't see how it could be seen as bullying or harassment. If anything, the fact that it seems mean probably reflects the amount of importance we place on a woman's appearance. (It wouldn't seem as harsh if a woman sang it to a man, I don't think.)

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:13 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe? no one seems to mind my funny valentine sung to either genre

My Funny Valentine has the singer addressing him/herself - sung into a mirror basically.

maybe originally but it's doubtful every one of the 3287893 total performers took that interpretation

I recall Charles Willeford's main character (not a nice man by the way) in Burnt Orange Heresy (1971) found it incredible that anyone could regard that song (MFV) as anything but thinly veiled aggression. I'm sure he phrased it more interestingly than that, but I don't have the book in front of me.

It's well known to be an expression of Lorenz Hart's self-loathing. When it's sung by a man it's about the man. When it's sung by a woman - it's still about the man. The preamble part of the song which is usually not sung establishes that it's about a "gent".

When it's sung by a man it's about the man. When it's sung by a woman - it's still about the man.

― everything, Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:02 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the height of undickishness

"the preamble part of the song which is usually not sung"

Not to go on about it unnecessarily, but I do think it's a fascinating lyric. It really does make more sense, when sung by a man, to be be interpreted as introspective self-mockery.

The first time I heard this song was as the b-side of Oliver's Army - I used to listen to it a lot. The a-side of the single is credited to Elvis Costello and the Attractions while the b-side is just credited to Elvis Costello. So there's a sickly-looking, anti-glamour icon of self-loathing, isolated from his gang. Not that E.C. doesn't have more than his fair share of passive aggressive attack songs but he's also self-critical and in this case I'm pretty sure he was deliberately trying to interpret the song as being about himself.

The preamble part of the song also establishes that the protagonist views the subject with admiration and that the later part is generally good-natured. Take it or leave it - if it's omitted as it almost always is, then it unimportant but it does display the songwriter's original intended tone.

"Behold the way our fine feathered friend,
His virtue doth parade
Thou knowest not, my dim-witted friend
The picture thou hast made
Thy vacant brow, and thy tousled hair
Conceal thy good intent
Thou noble upright truthful sincere,
And slightly dopey gent"

Is the preamble really usually omitted? Ella Fitzgerald included it, which for me feels like the definitive reading.

It's hard to find any other versions with it except for Ella and the original take from the movie Babes in Arms.

I was obviously being facetious about the bullying/harassment thing

The moral of the song isn't wrong but I would say a guy telling his girl "a pretty face you may not possess" is a dick move you can't argue with

I woulda said "More Than Words" but I sure would hope they had at least an inkling of how shitty they were being

I was obviously being facetious about the bullying/harassment thing

Ha, wasn't sure.

"Spaceboy" by the Smashing Pumpkins. a song ostensibly about/dedicated to Bill Corgan's younger brother Jesse. he was born with a developmental disability and Bill had to take care of him quite a bit. he related his own sense of abandonment and isolation to his handicapped brother, who was bullied and insulted by people of all ages constantly, in front of both of them. i always thought it was sort of tin-eared and in bad taste to compare being the weird kid to having a chromosomal disorder.

Not to go on about it unnecessarily, but I do think it's a fascinating lyric. It really does make more sense, when sung by a man, to be be interpreted as introspective self-mockery.

― everything, Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was also being somewhat facetious but as someone who's been on the receiving end of dudes filtering everything about how they relate to others through their own introspective self-mockery/loathing, it truly is the absolute height and pinnacle of dickishness even before it inevitably collapses into overt dickishness

Poor you.

If you're triggered by anything expressing or inspired by introspection or self-deprecation then there's a hell of a lot of popular music that you'll have to avoid.

apologies for pointing out instances of singers inadvertently coming off as dicks in the singers inadvertently coming off as dicks thread

Self-loathing introverts are such assholes, right

when that self-loathing is projected onto other people, then yes

'fraid so. Self-loathing does very often correlate with other-people-loathing. Bitter comedian examples available by the bucketful.

Thanks ILX, never knew Ella Fitzgerald was such an asshole.

"Poor you."

everything you are insufferable

new ILE board description

everything, more like dick parry the saxophonist for pink floyd

this, the most meta of threads

Jay-Z - Song Cry is ultra dickish. But you already knew that.

"Lodi" by CCR.

If I only had a dollar
For every song I've sung
Every time I had to play
While people sat there drunk

OH I'M SORRY, I didn't realize I was supposed to sit there in hushed reverence for your small-town barroom blues horseshit

Van Morrison, Astral Weeks.

Just like a typical entitled white male, expecting his poor girl to go look for him after he goes venturing in the fucking slipstream. Then he shames her into kissing his eyes? EWWWWWWWWWW!

"Under My Thumb" by the Rolling Stones is pretty misogynistic.

I basically find "Lodi" guy sympathetic, but that might be informed by a low-end dive bar's karaoke night I used to attend where it was a favorite song choice of one of the sad-sack bartender/owners, and he'd change it to "while you just sat there drunk."

most of Rubber Soul

After 7 - "Heat Of The Moment". A song that almost sounds like an expression of regret for being unfaithful until you realize he's singing it to the woman that he's apparently still boffing on the side.

Syreeta - "I Love Every Little Thing About You", specifically the incongruent line about holding God in higher esteem than the person she's singing about. It's like writing a letter to your mom to tell her how wonderful she is and how much you appreciate her but also just pointing out real quick that your dad is a better parent.

Badfinger's "Baby Blue" is a song-length study in a lame non-apology that shifts most of the actual blame onto the love interest for not giving him more credit: "Didn't know you'd think that I'd forget," "Did you really think I'd do you wrong," "Thought you'd realize that I would know," "How can I show you? Show me the way" -- all kinda standard stuff, but when piled up in succession you realize he basically hasn't said anything else and we're supposed to be real impressed by this. In this light, the last verse beginning with "Guess that's all I have to say" becomes downright hilarious.

Stroke 9, "Little Back Backpack" - for the entire plot, but especially the climactic outburst Your mind is lined with layers of lead / HAVE YOU HEARD ONE THING THAT I SAID?!

Richard Marx - "Hold on to the Nights". mostly "Well, I think that I've been true to everybody else but me" - aw someone hates monogamy

A sub-genre of this: 70s singer-songwriter types devoting whole songs to telling an acquaintance (usually male) how they're living their whole life wrong or in a phony dream world, or in an insufficiently liberated fashion. E.g. Hall and Oates "Laughing Boy" and "Lazyman," or Billy Joel "Angry Young Man," "James," "Captain Jack" sorta, etc.

(Obviously, all descendants of "Nowhere Man" and by extension, "Ballad of a Thin Man"-type Dylan. Simon & Garfunkel must have a couple of these that aren't coming immediately to mind.)

Mungo Jerry - In the Summertime

although it's such a braindead song I'm not sure you can say the speaker "means" to be anything

"Don't Think Twice It's Alright" is one where I really have a hard time sympathizing with the speaker -- he sounds like such a mean and bitter person beneath all the maudlin self-pity.

I think Dylan totally means to be a dick though

A lot of those "I'm an early mornin' lover and I must be movin' on" songs fit into this: "Goodbye Stranger" etc.

Xp For sure but I always took it as self-righteous or justified dickery in the speaker's eyes.

I always sort of assumed that the speaker in "Goodbye Stranger" was recognizing his dickishness but maybe I'm projecting.

A lot of Dylan songs could be retitled "You're So Dumb"

lol yes