whew that's over let's get coffee
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 March 2015 13:59 (nine years ago) link
every publication has a demographic/genre slant of some sort, whether or not you want to look at it through the lens of race or indie vs. mainstream. PF is no exception, and that's okay and inevitable, but the perception both inside PF and among some of its readership that it covers 'everything that truly matters' encourages this expectation of fair and comprehensive coverage that other publications aren't really held to, for better or worse.
― some dude, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:04 (nine years ago) link
The paradox is that Pitchfork is's covering mainstream musics in a way that would've been unthinkable in 2007 opens the door to even more criticism about what it's omitting or getting wrong.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 March 2015 14:14 (nine years ago) link
*Pitchfork's
BNM is like, "Yeah, I know we gave 8+ rankings to these metal albums and Jazmine Sullivan, but you--our core audience of indie folks who follow our breaking news stories about Arcade Fire covering this or that song--are REALLY gonna dig this Courtney Barnett or Tobias Jesso album."
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Monday, 30 March 2015 14:18 (nine years ago) link
two albums getting the same numerical score but only one of them being 'BNM' and what that could mean
Well, clearly it means both albums are very good, but only one album is the best. Like first and second place in "American Idol" or, I dunno, "Highlander."
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:19 (nine years ago) link
http://www.clickhole.com/article/all-my-equally-perfect-daughtersranked-2159
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:32 (nine years ago) link
what actually is the BNM deal anyway? is it one per week or anything that gets over a certain mark or more arbitrary?
― lex pretend, Monday, March 30, 2015 9:41 AM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah but hasn't there been a lot of gnashing of teeth over two albums getting the same numerical score but only one of them being 'BNM' and what that could mean
― some dude, Monday, March 30, 2015 9:56 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
BNM I think has been described as when an album is notable for both being solid and something that can be appealing to broad demographic that may not necessarily be invested in the genre/styling/scene that artist may be attributed to.
Whether we like it or not, BNM results in higher sales of records and more overall talk about that artist. And it's successful because it allows casual readers to see "highlighted" albums and songs among a sea of reviews, and simultaneously creates a perception shift through hype that you might see if you gave a completely random wine a little flag with red lettering that had a score of "93" in a store and watched it sell more and receive praise from consumers as a result.
― Evan, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:33 (nine years ago) link
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Monday, March 30, 2015 10:18 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yep
― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:36 (nine years ago) link
Whether we like it or not, BNM results in higher sales of records and more overall talk about that artist.
no yeah we know this obv, which is why a) i asked whether they were awarded based on anything concrete or just arbitrariness, and b) because this is the case, as silly as the BNM concept is, this is why their narrower focus is more of an issue in the context of this discussion
― lex pretend, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:37 (nine years ago) link
Right a perfectly solid metal album might not have enough crossover appeal in their opinion.
xp
― Evan, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:38 (nine years ago) link
so it's a separate metric from the actual mark out of 10 based on commercial potential then
― lex pretend, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:40 (nine years ago) link
makes me wonder even more why people are invested in it tbh
yeah lex the second part of my post there was addressing some dude who was asking why anyone should care about BNM overall:
i'm fine w/ looking at what a site reviews highly and observing trends or tendences, but the fact that people are always pulling their hair out over what is or isn't a 'BNM' seems like just buying into the site's branding way too much for me. it might as well be a smiley face icon that appears over certain reviews or a little cartoon red pepper with a word bubble saying 'this is a HOT one, baby!'
― some dude, Monday, March 30, 2015 1:33 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Evan, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:41 (nine years ago) link
I'm guessing some people don't read all their reviews and just click on the Best New Music tab
― curmudgeon, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:47 (nine years ago) link
Me, I only listen to music awarded BNM, exclusively. Because there are only so many hours in the day right?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:49 (nine years ago) link
Right, and to reiterate my wine store analogy it creates excitement for readers in a subconscious way. An extra filter that they give to albums they already feel are going to have broader appeal.
So the tag stands out and filters the noise of daily reviews and generates hype all at once. People feel like they have a pulse on up and coming artists by following the tag, but it's because they feel that way is what actually makes those artists popular, not because the artists necessarily already were going to be popular.
― Evan, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:50 (nine years ago) link
I'm guessing some people don't read all any of their reviews and just click on the Best New Music tab
― dyl, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:54 (nine years ago) link
yup
― Evan, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:59 (nine years ago) link
― curmudgeon, Monday, 30 March 2015 14:47 (27 minutes ago) Permalink
sigh
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 30 March 2015 15:17 (nine years ago) link
the kids do this all the time. That's how my students know I@n's name.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 March 2015 15:19 (nine years ago) link
BNM is huge 1) because it has a landing page 2) because they don't award that many BNM albums or tracks, that landing page doesn't turn over nearly as fast, so it's surfaced for much longer, with anything else on a website, once it drops off of the main page it's already gotten probably 75-80 percent of the hits it will ever get
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 March 2015 15:22 (nine years ago) link
sufjan for the win
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/20218-carrie-lowell/
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 15:38 (nine years ago) link
this is a HOT one, baby!
― some dude, Monday, 30 March 2015 15:42 (nine years ago) link
lol at that last paragraph
― salthigh, Monday, 30 March 2015 15:45 (nine years ago) link
The second-half of my argument against quantitative "objective" metrics is that it's terrible not just for music but for music writing and writers
― got a long list of ilxors (fgti), Monday, 30 March 2015 15:46 (nine years ago) link
Honestly, 9.3 is too low.
― Allen (etaeoe), Monday, 30 March 2015 16:00 (nine years ago) link
Don't call it a comeback. On his new album, Sufjan Stevens makes the tears rain down like a monsoon...
9.3 BNM
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 16:09 (nine years ago) link
what would Stevens' mom award it
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 March 2015 16:20 (nine years ago) link
(Alfo she's dead that's the point of the record)
― got a long list of ilxors (fgti), Monday, 30 March 2015 16:46 (nine years ago) link
OK so I fucked up the verb tense.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 March 2015 16:52 (nine years ago) link
― salthigh, Monday, March 30, 2015 11:45 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
why lol?
― primal, intuitive, and relatively unmediated (Treeship), Monday, 30 March 2015 17:25 (nine years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, 30 March 2015 15:42 (2 hours ago) Permalink
i keep hearing this in Christopher Walken's voice, ala the following:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/536145
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 30 March 2015 18:35 (nine years ago) link
giving 9.3 to a sufjan album is what pitchfork does it's like you all want the world to stop spinning
― primal, intuitive, and relatively unmediated (Treeship), Monday, 30 March 2015 18:40 (nine years ago) link
I don't think anyone overtly protested that.
― Evan, Monday, 30 March 2015 18:43 (nine years ago) link
I just assumed they gave Sufjan and Kendrick the same score so they can decide later which one is album of the year
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Monday, 30 March 2015 18:47 (nine years ago) link
lol, probably
or it can be like 2013 where they gave yeezus a higher score than the album that got their #1 EOY spot (inasmuch as that matters)
― are... are you saying you fucked a gazelle? (slothroprhymes), Monday, 30 March 2015 19:00 (nine years ago) link
the article isn't the most sophisticated thing and her argument has some weird things missing (like, almost everyone in TV on the Radio is black, and they're one of the best reviewed and best known indie bands in the US) but whenever there's an article even hinting at race people get fucking defensive and weird and it stirs up all kinds of shit.
― akm, Monday, 30 March 2015 19:29 (nine years ago) link
which is not the fault of the person who wrote the article
― akm, Monday, 30 March 2015 19:30 (nine years ago) link
ha, one of my reactions to that article was to reflect on how I actively try to enjoy TV on the Radio in a manner that I don't for most bands, largely because they are a successful majority-black indie band
― DJP, Monday, 30 March 2015 19:35 (nine years ago) link
i brought up tvotr on facebook and someone pointed out that she was specifically talking about southeast asian indie people? so, they didn't count. that she was specifically looking for more people who looked like her.
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 20:00 (nine years ago) link
just ick, all of it.
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 30 March 2015 20:08 (nine years ago) link
sometimes these kinds of articles/essays/blog posts can be useful when someone says something like: why aren't the online magazines writing about...goes on to name cool asian-american indie rock bands that aren't being written about.
but they didn't really do that here. which makes me wonder if there are cool asian-american indie rock bands that people aren't writing about. and like i said above, there are certainly lots of cool/fashionable indie rock bands in asia. there are like a zillion bands that sound like my bloody valentine in japan alone. not that they get written about much here either.
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 20:09 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xLjq2aYnxw
Salon Music doing the MBV thing in 1995.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 30 March 2015 20:15 (nine years ago) link
or, you know, slowdive...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8_a2IYmdOM
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 20:21 (nine years ago) link
sufjan eating a banana on best new music... forever
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Monday, 30 March 2015 20:22 (nine years ago) link
or, you know, indonesian dropkick murphys fans...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp6LmvIVlDk
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 20:23 (nine years ago) link
want more bands like this here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaOLR9N0WVM
― scott seward, Monday, 30 March 2015 20:28 (nine years ago) link
are cool asian-american indie rock bands that people aren't writing about.
The funny thing, there were actually a good number of '90s ur-indie bands in the mode being talked about that featured all or mostly Asian members. Seam, Versus, Cornershop, +/-, Kicking Giant, Cibo Matto, Blonde Redhead ...
But maybe her bugaboo is that there aren't many right now? Who knows. Like, did she mention Toro y Moi? Yeah Yeah Yeahs? Dirty Beaches (RIP?)? Thao and the Get Down Stay Down? Regardless, if you get specific and sub-divide enough then yeah, eventually you'll come up short in the "people just like me" department.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 March 2015 20:42 (nine years ago) link
wait what happened to dirty beaches
― primal, intuitive, and relatively unmediated (Treeship), Monday, 30 March 2015 20:45 (nine years ago) link