amanda palmer's open poem to jonathan chait (and other crimes)

sorry croup, commute time!

yeah everything i read your equivocation the first time

Do you think people pay $250 to see they Rolling Stones because they heard about this song called "Satisfaction" and want to see what the fuss is about?

xpost obv the entertainment industry has long known access to heroes is a salable commodity (HANG OUT WITH METALLICA AND MTV, yadda ya) and you could even argue what she's doing is kinder to the kind of fan that sends in a hundred postcards to hang out backstage. but what kind of person can OFFER that kind of emotional availability simply for a price, other than your l-rons.

― da croupier, Wednesday, March 4, 2015 8:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there are a million william shatners who will take your money in exchange for a sprinkling of their fame-dust but on some level it'd be weirder if shatner was like NOW YOU ARE MY FRIEND FOR LIFE I SWEAR TO YOU

― da croupier, Wednesday, March 4, 2015 8:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbf there were some more words in the sentence you quoted xp

Many, many rocks stars have said such things to their fans, even if it's usually from a stage. And AP IS a performer after all. It's a schtick, an act. One you find weird and mysterious obviously but just a performance nonetheless.

in case it's unclear that's a reference to L Ron Hubbard not Jeremy I-Rons.

everything, if you admit it's a shtick why are you bothered that i think her shtick is funny?

and i do think friendship subscriptions are weird (the fact that other people shout "thank you! i love you!" from a stage after applause doesn't change that) but i don't find it mysterious, just amusingly shameless

So is Bono.

i also know the pope wears a funny hat

http://www.gehmanfamily.com/avatars/we-love-you.gif

i didn't pay a dime for my shatner photo:

http://i.imgur.com/AdHvorh.png

he did only agree to take it with me on the condition that neither one of us stopped walking.

Here are a few:

https://www.patreon.com/Porpentine
https://www.patreon.com/artofthetitle
https://www.patreon.com/BreadandRosesTV

If you support Porpentine she can make more free games. You won't get anything for it, except she'll keep doing it.

If you support Art of the Title below $20 they won't give you anything but gratitude. For $20 you get a shirt, which I guess is better than chewing on stuff. You also get some stickers.

For Bread and Roses they'll give you a poster for $20, true, but that isn't exactly their "Sistine Chapel".

With all of these the point is to help them keep making stuff, not so that they can provide you with a tangible thing.

I don't see any possible problem to see with this besides "I personally dislike amanda palmer and thus this is bad."

― katherine, Wednesday, March 4, 2015 5:06 PM (2 hours ago)

katherine otm. i don't see anything wrong with any of this. and vocally hating amanda palmer/pomplamoose long ago crossed over into "omg i love BACON nom nom nom" meme-gang territory.

does anyone besides forks call katherine 'kat' y/n

hey polyphonic when someone says Please Show Other Examples Of Famous People Selling Their Friendship Via Subscription do yourself the credit of not responding with a link to a journalism site saying they'd like you to give them money in exchange for a thank you

i mean god bless the ilxors who don't like to engage in cheap lols at cult artists indulging their egomania because they either love cult artists or hate cheap lols, but i'd respect it a lot more if one could just ACKNOWLEDGE the egomania in ending an FAQ by saying people just call to say they love you before offering your attention for 1k a thingie, rather than indulging in these point-missing "palmer haters gonna hate"/"people asks for money for all kinds of things" weaves.

Have other successful crowdfunders written books/went on talks about how they are visionaries for doing so?

hey croup you are not very fun to talk to

Have other successful crowdfunders written books/went on talks about how they are visionaries for doing so?

― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, March 4, 2015 8:34 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This kind of thing isn't unprecedented...

http://www.milliontalks.com/uploads/monthly_03_2011/post-9-075148700%201300791159_thumb.jpg
http://eil.com/images/main/Timelords-The-Manual-157176.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NGQ5ZFT9L._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I call all katherines "kat", it's meant friendly
Katherine, you mind?

I honestly believe that "I love you" is a pretty FAd Q for Amanda Palmer - she does the cult of personality thing, but emotional labour has always been part of the job for a lot of artists, women in particular.

I also find that I feel differently about this sort of thing after spending too much time reading about GamerGate, but that's a longer post for later.

Basically she emotionally manipulating goths

It is such a shame because goths are so easily manipulated! I mean health goth was bad enough!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwvzP2JcFtg

I also find that I feel differently about this sort of thing after spending too much time reading about GamerGate, but that's a longer post for later.

― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, March 5, 2015 3:18 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not GG related but I was thinking of this other recent famous kickstarter debacle, with Peter Molyneux:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/13/peter-molyneux-interview-godus-reputation-kickstarter/

Essentially he over-promised and there are specific things he promised that he didn't deliver on, whether through the natural order of creating a game or because of his being a "pathological liar" as the intro question of the above interview so cuttingly puts it. He was put out to try. A glance at this interview, it is clear that the interviewer wants badly for this guy to pay for his crime of misusing his power. He was trashed in many articles like this.

AP is huge in crowdfunding, but I feel like this sort of thing couldn't really happen to her. Or is this comparable to what she went through w paymusiciansinbeerhuggate?

Put out to try dry.

With Molyneux it's more that Kickstarter provided a specific framework to say "No, you have specifically agreed to do this - and you can't" - he'd had years (decades!) of talking up amazing life-changing games and just making good-to-great ones, and always being a great interview subject.

I don't think that AP has the same golden aura around her in the music press? But then I also don't think that (as far as I know) she's failed any of her pledges - da croupier's distaste is not, at least, a question of ethics.

does she really make more money this way than just selling a download or a book of poetry on her website? i mean, you can make a song at home for nothing. seems like it would be easier than doing all this other stuff.

speaking of cults of personality it's molyneux

Amanda Palmer has always been pretty transparent about the cost of what she does, and she said in the Patreon blog (one of them anyway) that her pay-what-you-want download shop is unsustainable and that Theatre Is Evil sold very little post-Kickstarter. I think this is a good solution for her. And the main reason she's never going to fuck up like some crowdfunders do is she has employees who do all her logistics stuff, answer customer service emails and make sure deadlines are held. The one kickstarter item that was delayed was an art book and she kept people continually informed about that situation while apologising for it.

And this is why Patreon might be great for her but hardly the future of music cos most artists just aren't that organised/service-minded, and even if they have the sense to leave this stuff to someone else it will probably be to someone called Rab the Legend they met down the pub.

does she really make more money this way than just selling a download or a book of poetry on her website? i mean, you can make a song at home for nothing. seems like it would be easier than doing all this other stuff.

dude it is very hard to get people to pay for just a download

is it ok to laugh about the fact that the video ends with the words "trust me" written over her eyes, with the words turning white as the screen fades to black

but lots of people sell downloads and then physical releases that go up in price. limited-edition stuff, etc. they have stores. seems like less trouble. she could print one bad poem on fancy paper and do limited releases of those. you can sell all kinds of things online if you have a fanbase.

she's going to still do that. this is a pre-sale with some VIP love attached.

i mean, she does sell stuff on her site, but not much!

http://shop.amandapalmer.net/

http://media.giphy.com/media/HDdUFEN2TqUmI/giphy.gif

where are the 30 dollar t-shirts on her site? limited-edition 30 dollar t-shirts. the crowdsourcing thing just seems like a lot of grief and work.

seems like more fun to get paid 20 000 dollars every time you release an MP3 than make sure you have enough XXXL 30 dollar T shirts in stock

i'll bet she could sell polaroids of herself for a hundred bucks a pop on her website. hand-written page of lyrics: $500.

hahaha, thought of this thread immediately...

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/wrg/4917981503.html

the crowdsourcing thing just seems like a lot of grief and work.

Rock Paper Shotgun dude is an insane person btw

No musician gets a Ted Talk or book deal about selling t-shirts

okay, fine, you guys are the experts.

scott you're coming from the perspective where the most selfish ideal is someone giving you a million bucks for a toothpaste cap, with you driving off with the loot. palmer's coming from a place where the ideal is to know she could jump off any building and a group of loving fans would catch her, thanking her for the privilege. its not just about profit, but engagement.

Rock Paper Shotgun dude is an insane person btw

ty I felt real weird watching this guy just demand APOLOGIZE! APOLOGIZE! SAY YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT! all thru that & then if you read the comments (I know I know) it's a bunch of people goin YEAH FUCK YEAH GREAT INTERVIEW MAN

yeah, i guess it's just weird to me. it's about money but it's not about money? but it always kinda boils down to money. which is why i wonder why someone would want to resort to weird emotional games with their fans when they could just sell them stuff. sometimes people just want to buy things. the whole *you are a part of me and my art by giving me money* well, okay, i guess that's as old as the hills a la patronage, but still...doesn't seem next-level to me.

cult leader vs ceo

her first ~Thing~ just dropped:
http://amandapalmer.bandcamp.com/track/bigger-on-the-inside-3
unlikely to win her any new fans, but I think it's beautiful. saw her play it live a couple of years (?) back and half the room was in tears. it was pretty powerful seeing an artist you know is so widely (and ott) hated address it outright and from several angles like that in an otherwise very fun-vibe gig.