Jay Z/ Nas and other hiphop throwdowns...resurrected. Part 4

http://www.vh1.com/shows/dyn/the_greatest/65574/episode_wildcard.jhtml?wildcard=/shows/dynamic/includes/wildcards/the_greatest/50hip_hop/1_50_aux.jhtml&event_id=864597

look for yourself....Salt n Pepa is in the top 10, that's all I'll say (and Arrested Development made the fucking list!)

50 Cent isn't trying to sound hard.

I love everything I've heard by Foxy (which is two songs, maybe).

1. Run-D.M.C.

2. Public Enemy

3. 2Pac

4. The Notorious B.I.G.

5. LL Cool J

6. Eminem

7. Dr. Dre

8. Grandmaster Flash

9. Salt-N-Pepa

10. Jay-Z

11. Beastie Boys

12. Wu-Tang Clan

13. NWA

14. P. Diddy

15. Missy Elliott

16. Ice-T

17. Fugees / Lauryn Hill

18. Afrika Bambaattaa

19. Nas

20. Eric B & Rakim

21. Outkast

22. KRS-One

23. DMX

24. Queen Latifah

25. Snoop Dogg

26. Ice Cube

27. A Tribe Called Quest

28. Busta Rhymes

29. Nelly

30. Will Smith / D.J. Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh

31. Naughty By Nature

32. Cypress Hill

33. De La Soul

34. Lil' Kim

35. Big Daddy Kane

36. Master P

37. The Roots

38. Biz Markie

39. Ja Rule

40. Gang Starr

41. MC Lyte

42. Kurtis Blow

43. Coolio

44. MC Hammer

45. Heavy D. & The Boyz

46. Eve

47. Arrested Development

48. Kool Moe Dee

49. Tone Loc

50. Sugarhill Gang

I think when I say that an MC is "real" I really mean "I like his music" and when I say an MC is fake I really mean "I don't like his music" Also, when it comes down to it, who cares if it's so real it's beyond fake or whatever, as long as it's good?

Sorry if what I wrote is a bit schematic, or glib; I'm trying to be concise. Anyway, the paradox is profound, and it's not going to disappear, because it has strong causes and deep roots. A Jewish poet enslaved in Babylon wrote "For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song/And they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying/'Sing us one of the songs of Zion'/But how can we sing the Lord's song/In a strange land?" So anyone who's made complicit in his own oppression (and few aren't) might feel that death is more honest than mirth, self-destruction more real than a song. "Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth." But in music the cliché is getting increasingly wrung dry. Eminem can still wrest great poetry out of it, but for most it's become a tired trope, albeit one that can still kill them. The term "hardcore" deserves to dodder off to its grave, whether it's punk, rave, hip-hop, or porn.

Okay also on this real thing frank I think yr right that the "real" is a construct but the point is to grasp it not wish it away. Then you can play with it, coz see we GOTTA thing about the real otherwise what's the point of the music. DMX doesn't rock the thug image, but its like jess quipped he's emo. I mean he ties the "pain" of being an entertainer to the "pain" of hard streets like I love that "X put in years of work and its ALL FOR THE KIDS" line in X Gonna Give It To Ya.

still i think that its sorta utopian to ask that we eliminiate "the real" from pop and its discourse. i mean it seems to be the only thing pop is about. i mean doesn't arguing about "real" map onto arguing about "real hip-hop" map onto arguing about GENRE boundaries which I thought we agreed was part of the vital life of music in the FIRST PLACE?

Which I wasn't suggesting that we do. Sorry Sterling, you're one of the brightest men on here, but I can't think of a more boring response to what I wrote than to decide that I'm saying that "the real" is a construct and that "the real" should be eliminated from pop and its discourse. O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be that subjects you to interminable irrelevant talk about the real being a social construct.

All I got to say is I PUT Y'ALL NIGGAS UP ON JADAKISS!

I was gonna try and read everyone who posted, but I got bored so I'll go to three of the topics I saw...

Whoever said they wanted to spit, I say... SPIT! If you seen any of the earlier shit from Bob or even Squirrel Police, you can easily do better than that. In fact, watch me: "I'm a poet, bout to show it, don't you know it?" See? Thanks to Boob and Squirlplise, that's not the worse line spat!

Now, let's not even get to our favorite MCs! Dammit, my PERSONAL list would go 2Pac, Pimp C of UGK, Big Boi of Outkast, Andre "Ice Cold" 3000, and Juicy J of Three 6. But that's DA SOUTH in me. If I had to list the top five MCs UNBIASED it would go 2Pac, BIG, Eminem, Jay-Z, and Outkast. But tell the truth, A3K fucks it up on "Hey Ya!" You know you like it.

Finally, 50 Cent's album is nice. Like 3:16 (U Never Imagined This Evil Dilemma... my neezy), I agree it's at least 60% production - it's Dre, dammit - but 50 still be havin me rollin. He's nice, definitely nowhere near Pac or Big or even Jay-Z, and sellin like crazy. And simply, his album is just mad nice. Mad nice.

All right, I'm gone.

I'm out like part 1, 2, and... oops, my bad 3:16... Peace!

'i don't like much rap
except dmx because
he's kind of a goth'

Yo, trife, cousin, I gotta admit that Lil Flip is hilarious. And Pastor Troy do come out with a few songs I like. But Troy sucks. His whole career was built off dissin No Limit for absolutely no reason other than to make a name for himself. He even said that was why! How gay is that? TI has very nice CD. Rubber Band Man is my cut. But on King of Da South he says, "Ain't but 5 rappers bustin out Atlanta and I'm one of em." Who are the other 5? One has to be Outkast. So that would leave 3 and there are many other Atlanta artists.

DMX's first CD was extremely nice. I think with all the BIG/Jay-Z/Nas Illmatic/Reasonable Doubt/Ready to Die is a classic first album, DMX gets lost in the midst. It's Dark is quite frankly better than Illmatic and Ready to Die COMBINED if you ask me and it is better than Reasonable Doubt, even though RD is mad nice. But I think Earl will never match It's Dark cause he came out too hard for any of his other albums to come close.

All right, I'm gone.

I'm out like Styles run. Peace!

(Yall know that line is wrong, it's just wrong! I appologize to Cookie [Magic Johnson's wife] :P)

What's good people? Glad to be back. Let me address a few topics...

I won't even go there with Hillis saying "It's dark & Hell is Hot" is better than Ready To Die, RD & Illmatic combined!! You must really wanted to get a rise out of someone to say that. Cause I know you honestly don't think that. It's Dark is a great album, but I strongly disagree with it being better then RD, Ready To Die & Illmatic combined.

This 50 Cent craze that sweaped the nation didn't surprise me one bit. I think Star from the Star & Bucwild show said it best. There is a reason the nigga got a Million Dollar contract. the Eminem Connection helped him pushed units. Along to coincide with that, was the fact middle America is intrigued with his story, suburbia wants to be like him. The beef with Ja Rule arising to commercialism. Then lets not forget his loyal following in the Underground scene since 1999. It all calculated to him being the next big thing. But what surprised me was his work ethic after the album success. He's been blazing up the airwaves along with the Underground at the same time. I'm not a true fan of him necessarily. But I did like "Power Of The Dollar," also a few joints off of "50 Cent Is The Future" & "No Mercy, No Fear" ... funny stuff in there. I'm kinda past the whole thing with 50 being the next big thing. Now I'm Patiently Waiting on his nigga Lloyd Banks to drop his solo album. IMHO, I think he's better then 50 Cent and outshines him on 80% of the tracks they have done together. Sooner or later I see Lloyd breaking out from them. I've already heard they have had fights backstage, and in the studio. It's just a matter of time before the other G-Unit members will realize he's batter, then they will want him out.

You guys have probably heard or seen Cassidy beat the shit in that (Pre-Write) battle against Freeway. I know a whole bunch of niggas ain't sleeping on him now since that battle. But I have a feeling his destine to be that next nigga. Not like a 50 Cent or a Jay-z, but more of a gutter success like Jadakiss or Styles P. He has Swizz on the boards backing him up. He has a hot bed of RR talent waiting to blaze a track up with him. He's proved he can rhyme already. It's just to him to convert himself from a punchline rapper to rapper who can handle it in the booth. A lot of niggas can rap, but they can't be professional in the booth. But I got my eye on him.

Finally, I'm proud to see at least a few regulars back here. Maybe there is a second run in store for the "Hip-Hop Throwdown" ...We can't call it the "Jay-z vs. Nas Hip-Hop Throwdown" anymore. I feel we have grown out of that converse, I consider this a community more so than a single topic. We are more than just battles & disses... WE ARE HIP-HOP.

50s underground mixes just keep gettin bigger and bigger, his last one had more famous guests than his actual album, luda, neptunes, sean paul... whats he doin?? i agree lloyd banks is a tight mc but i dont know if hes got the star power of his g unit leader... as for 50 he should just release a best of from all his mixes as a major label release, it would be killin most rappers albums out right now.

cassidy seems aight so far, not great yet but i think hes got something, i just started another thread on ilxor.com about his song with jada and im feelin both their verses hard plus the beat is niiiice. still havent heard his battle with freeway but id believe he won it, freeway is kinda a pussy rapper, he tries to be ghost with distressed vocal shit and i like him sometimes but hes not the greatest battle mc. i think its time for more street talent in the game, styles p isnt that gully though lately hes more on a pop tip with that i get high like hippies afroman type shit!! i was feeling his song with kim though, nice verse. and cass is a good at punchlines but hes still not on jadas level, remember his verse on the lox song 'recognize' where he comes with one just classic line after another:

'aint none of yall better than lox / have all yall dressed up in a suit dead in a box / me and my niggas get redder than foxx / i dont care if i love you, still want head of the drop / niggas runnin round talkin that y2k shit / crackheads still gon want that gray shit / thats why ima always cop the yay quick / so i suggest all of yall stay on jay dick / too hard for mtv, not black enough for bet, just let me be / gimme all my royalty money and let me greed / ima have hoes for six, and hash for three'

aight im done! man thats a long post, i dont got a real sign-off yet like most of yall do, what should i come up with?? let me try one... yo im gone like b from jiggas arm after the black album drops!!! that was corny... peace yall

i'm from the hood where the dropouts is banging for the feeling
for houses with tvs hanging from the ceilings
we gamble on ball courts
keep the paint peeling
you either play ball or rap if you ain't dealing
i'm stuck in the past
shit changed since the 80s
i know ladies, that got babies with babies
out here its basketball and speedbags
and guns that'll stiffen you up like freeze tag

niggas know I'm hot
but my ice cold enough to freeze whole towns
still follow the code: gs up, hoes down
i see you ballin and your rocks is chilly
now, my g-unit niggas dont ride bikes that don't pop a wheelie
i aint straight 'til i'm livin where it's hot and sandy
and the benz's complexion is cotton candy
i bounced up, here's the best part
you niggas don't know what pain is
the only scar on your body's a stretch mark

i like that. but he doesn't have the charisma and the delivery. 50 and tony aren't as good at the kind of stuff that lloyd does but i'd rather hear them. and he definitely never outshines them!

DK, did you buy that new Lloyd Banks album "Mo Money In The Bank" last week? If not, you need to get that cause you'll be convince the dude is better than 50. Ever since 50 took that bullet to the face he's kinda lost his delivery is off too. And for some dumb reason he seems to be rapping high pitched with his voice when he raps now on some parts of the song. I got that freestyle he did on Hot97 with him, Buck & Banks. He just kept jumping off the High-Hat of the beat and started doing this light voice delivery on the record. It threw him way off the beat plus it sounded gay. 50 is too goofy right now to be taken really serious, Lloyd is still hungry. You are right, 50 will still be the most successful, but Lloyd is where its at.

Trife, don't get it twisted. I ain't saying Cass got anything on Jada (Cause we know Jada still got it). I'm just saying the dude has potential like a Jadakiss or a Styles P. Their career paths are almost parallels with Jada spawning from the Lox, and Cass coming from Larceny. Then their style is similar, but Jada is still running things as far as punchlines. But Cass is making noise too. Also by the way, not only did Cass beat Freeway in that battle, but he had the dude sounding like he was crying, it was hilarious! Since we are on the subject of young rappers. I wonder how do yall feel about Team Arliss? I got mixed feelings about them, but I think D-Block will mold them into some real stars. I like their freestyles, but I hear a lot of people dissing them saying they are shitty.

By the way any of you want that Freestyle with G-Unit on Hot 97 (50 also disses Lil' Kim in there). Or if you want both parts of the Freestyle battle between Cassidy & Freeway, holla at me. I'm at [email protected], the files are compressed down to a very small MP3 file size. I enhanced the G-Unit Freestyle since it was taped off the radio. So it's probably the best quality you'll find on the net. Anyways I'm out people.

Let me clear up a misunderstanding. I think that It's Dark is only better than Ready to Die and Illmatic combined. And I'm not tryin to provoke nobody with that statement. Come on, now. If I wanted to provoke people it would be very clear. Y'all know me. I only like 2 cuts on Illmatic and 3 on Ready to Die. Now Reasonable Doubt is real nice. I think It's Dark is better but not by as much. If we added the few songs I like on Ill and R2D plus Reasonable Doubt, then they're all better than It's Dark, true. But Ready to Die is weak and Illmatic is even weaker in my opinion.

HOW BOUT THEM VOLS???!!! H*WOOD, where's all the FLA talk now???!!!

LMAO @ Freeway sounds like he's crying... I thought he made that feelin music? lol

P.S. Scared of blood like Magic's wife... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

I'm out like the Gators. Peace!

hillis, man, what joints on ready to die and illmatic are you feelin? when i listen to either i only skip maybe one track on each, 'respect' on bigs cd and sometimes 'one time 4 your mind' on nas. seriously , only three good cuts on ready to die?? shit, what about 'warning', 'one more chance', 'big poppa', 'juicy', 'unbelieveable', thats just the singles!! then you got classic album tracks like 'me & my bitch', 'the what', and 'things done changed', and same thing for the nas cd, you got to explain your shit man! its dark and hell is hot has like five or six ok songs and the rest is wack, dont tell me you ever really want to play 'ruff ryders anthem' again?? i can only really listen to 'for my dogs' and 'x is coming', thats it. speaking of for my dogs any of yall heard the new drag-on shit, i always thought he was nice on that and i copped this new ruff ryders promo cd called 'south beach' with all songs from his upcoming cd plus some other wack new mcs and that jin song from 2 fast 2 furious... anyway i was never feeling drag before, i liked his song 'fireman' on cradle 2 the grave but i didnt know he was doin a bunch of shit that was all crazy like that but his new songs are TIGHT, drag comes with nicer lyrics than i ever heard from him before and the beats are all wild, if its got all the songs i heard already on it his cd is gonna be one of the best of the year.

im gonna end with a song i bet yall slept on, two verses from '5 seconds' off the roscoe cd :

a stack of doe with some doe doe to roll fat
im a top notch nigga, handle a cock grippa
cut your arm off to get to the watch quicka
not tryin to do it all, cant see juvie hall
too many booty calls my nigga, duty calls
im used to ditching classes roamin through the halls
i run wit the young assassins, thats where i belong

im scopin so many sheep in wolves clothin, it's pitiful
analyze the situation, hypocritical, cynical criminals indespicable individuals
supplyin the heat rock bumpin through yo digital
whenever you dippin through the ghetto
whippin the six two chevy, blowin heavy, goin seventy
wit one hand on the steering wheel tryin to hold it steady
hittin the switch
cuz only dogg pound gangstas
can spit it like this

ok im out like q tip when he does his primetime barbara walters special next year, just wait!! man, corny again hahaha....

As far as this 50 thing, I keep hearing "How To Rob" getting mentioned. You guys maybe never caught on to his unreleased album "Power of The Dollar" but that is probably the best work 50 has ever done, but yet to never get released. I feel it is better than "Get Rich..." actually I would say Trackmasters did a better job in production than Em, Sha Money, Dre & Megahertz COMBINED! Get Rich was really just a goofy song, but that is a far cry from what's on the album. I mean he had Destiny's Child singing about thug love on that album?? That has to get a few spins! LOL. I'm gonna drop my E-mail once again by yall to get a little sample of what I am talking about: [email protected]
If you not feeling it, then I'll leave it alone.

About this thing with 50 dissing Lil' Kim. All he did Qool, was freestyle saying he wrote Magic Stick, and made it a hit. And said why should he care about her emotions for not doing the video, and said and I quote: "Why should I care about your emotions Your not my bitch!" That was pretty much just his night to diss everyone. He went at Shyne, A-Team & Lil Kim... I'm wondering how can a nigga get in a beef with someone in jail??? He would have continued to diss her and the others, but Funkmaster Flex's dumb ass didn't want him to diss Lil Kim which he considers a friend. He was talking about trying to keep things peaceful and shit... but this is the same nigga who beat the shit out of Steph Lova outside the studio. As if his fat ass was threatened by a female! Whatever.

Hillis, I ain't gonna lie Tennessee played a good game against Florida. But Chris leak & Andre Caldwell (Brother of Reche) is gonna run all over the SEC in a few years. Besides that point I still got Florida State & Miami to root for. When all three go down, I'll just duck & hide from you, LOL!