― bobby bedelia (van dover), Saturday, 27 January 2007 04:49 (seventeen years ago) link
yay van dover
― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Saturday, 27 January 2007 06:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― chad (chad), Saturday, 27 January 2007 07:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Saturday, 27 January 2007 07:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 07:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― StanM (StanM), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:18 (seventeen years ago) link
I prefer k-punk's "romantics of production vs romantics of consumption"
In a funny way "romantics" captures something hard to define but essential about both rockism and popism in a way that "authenticity" doesn't - at a stretch I'd call it their emotionally charged inconsistency.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 27 January 2007 10:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Saturday, 27 January 2007 11:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― m the g (mister the guanoman), Saturday, 27 January 2007 13:06 (seventeen years ago) link
Conversely, pop-discourse treats the pop star as the primary source of production, when in fact in reality many pop stars do not actually produce most of their own music beyond providing vocals - however if listeners ascribe to popism and/or pop discourse, they may choose to act as if the pop stars are the primary producers.
So rock involves a fantasy of consumption in order to preserve the primacy of production, whereas pop involves a fantasy of production in order to preserve the primacy of consumption.
It is irrelevant here that pop listeners "know" that their favourite pop star is not actually writing the songs, just as it is irrelevant that the rock listeners know that they have not actually seen their favourite hot new band live yet, or listened to their album on vinyl in a room. It's the acting as if these things are true in the face of knowledge to the contrary which is the very essence of the fantasies.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 27 January 2007 13:17 (seventeen years ago) link
I seriously disagree with this, Tim. Rock-discourse actually values an album after it's been listened to repeatedly; masterpieces "hold up" after three dozen listens.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 27 January 2007 13:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― ampersand, spades, semicolon (cis), Saturday, 27 January 2007 13:34 (seventeen years ago) link
obviously one can listen to an album in one go many times over the course of a lifetime.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 27 January 2007 13:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 27 January 2007 13:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 27 January 2007 15:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link
OK, I getcha.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 27 January 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 27 January 2007 23:26 (seventeen years ago) link
Hmm...ideas for future Teena Marie album liner notes.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 27 January 2007 23:43 (seventeen years ago) link
I mean that, in 2006, it is not "natural social behaviour" to listen to an album in one go on vinyl in a room, but it IS to listen to MP3s in bits on the bus. The rockist constructs false environments in which to consume rock because rock needs to be consumed "properly", that's how it's designed - the popist consumes pop whenever and wherever he/she can, because that's what pop is for. Ergo the consumption of pop is more authentic, because it doesn't require falsely-constructed environments, and I would argue that, say, Lex (as definitive strawman popist!) would see it as a positive thing that people listen to Ciara on the bus, because that(consumption)'s authentic, and who gives too figs whether the music was made "because Ciara was feeling it, man, and needed to express it", or because some producer had a tune and some A&R man had a face for the tune (which is inauthentic, because it is manipulative.
And we all know how rock is (supposedly) produced - friends-from-childhood in the garage.
So, pop manipulates you when it is produced, because of the (supposed) unnaturalness of it's production, but not when it's consumed, cos you can consume it whenever and wherever you like. Rock manipulates you when it is consumed, because it ought to be live, or all in one go, but not when it's produced because kids in garages with cheap guitars is "natural".
Of course, pop lies about it's autheticity of consumption just as much as rock lies about it's authenticity of production; the lies necessary tools in the pop playbook in order to construct myths which fit the music into the right slot in order to attract the pre-ordained fanbase necessary for it to succeed. Which is why Scritti Politti "fail" at pop and The Kooks "fail" at rock.
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 28 January 2007 07:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 28 January 2007 07:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― bobby bedelia (van dover), Sunday, 28 January 2007 07:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 28 January 2007 07:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Sunday, 28 January 2007 08:03 (seventeen years ago) link
this is just wild, unsupported assumption stated as fact, on the basis that there is such a quantifiable thing as 'natural' social behaviour in the first place. social behaviour is in no way homogenous, and both can be seen as as 'natural' as each other. there's nothing unusual about the fact that many people who are into music can and do engage in both of these activites, albeit not usually at the same time. there's nowhere to plug in your turntable on the N73.
― m the g (mister the guanoman), Sunday, 28 January 2007 11:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 28 January 2007 11:55 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1663591,00.html
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:30 (sixteen years ago) link
no chillax no cred
― ledge, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:37 (sixteen years ago) link
"Rockite: A member of an Irish organization associated with agrarian disorders in the earlier part of the nineteenth century. Also Rockism."
Not online yet then.
― ledge, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:40 (sixteen years ago) link
sheeeeit.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:43 (sixteen years ago) link
that's big.
GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT GEIRBAIT
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link
So is this thread ground zero?
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:53 (sixteen years ago) link
I like how most of the other words there are only used by corny nitwits as well
― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:53 (sixteen years ago) link
I used to refer in a derogatory manner to someone in University in the late 80s for being to rockist, i.e they use to read only Raw magazine and their music tastes were too rockist.
While I listened to a wider variety of music Talk Talk/Spacemen 3/ Cocteau Twins/ Yello/Colourbox/ The Fall/ Happy Mondays/ My Bloody Valentine/ arkane/ Front 242/ Husker Du/ Mary Margaret O'Hara/ Kate Bush/Detroit techno/ Wire/ Lowlife/That Petrol Emotion/ Throwing Muses/ Sonic Youth/Phillip Boa & the Voodoo Club/ The Young Gods/ The Chameleons/ Blue Nile/ Voivod/ Sisters of Mercy/ Skinny Puppy/New Order/Killing Joke etc
-- DJ Martian, Thursday, 14 December 2000 01:00 (6 years ago) Bookmark Link
― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:54 (sixteen years ago) link
you couldn't make it up.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 27 September 2007 14:59 (sixteen years ago) link
you have to read 'slash' out loud
― gff, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:00 (sixteen years ago) link
BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL BUZZKILL
― The Reverend, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:03 (sixteen years ago) link
I enjoy a bit of rockism now and again, I don't take it too seriously of course.
― max r, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:06 (sixteen years ago) link
Rockism was a meaningful word when originally used by people such as Paul Morley back in the 80s, to defend acts that were taking their music just as seriously, only with synths rather than guitars being their main instrument.
When used to defend corporate teenyboppers unable to write their own material, and with outside people deciding their musical style, it is pointless.
― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:09 (sixteen years ago) link
^^^ban
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:10 (sixteen years ago) link
Think you Morley's ideas arse over tit there, you crazy bastard, Hongro. Still love you loads tho, babe. xxx
― max r, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:15 (sixteen years ago) link
*Think you got
sorry, I'm hungover
A love hangover for Geiry-boy.
― max r, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:16 (sixteen years ago) link
Geir of the dog
― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:17 (sixteen years ago) link
Geirsy would never let one of these "outside people" decide his musical style.
― max r, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Worst and most unlistenable genres/eras ever: 1. 12 tone music (1920-1940) 2. Hip-Hop (1979-present) 3. Funk/disco (late 60s-around 1980) 4. "Contemporary R&B" (Early 90s - present) 5. Bop (1940s)
-- Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 24 April 2003 08:09 (4 years ago)
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Goddamn, Martian stole my record collection in 1989.
― NickB, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:20 (sixteen years ago) link
holmes is on point re. 12-tone.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:23 (sixteen years ago) link
It's no 2-tone, that's fer sure.
― NickB, Thursday, 27 September 2007 15:25 (sixteen years ago) link