R. Kelly - "Trapped In The Closet"

I think reading this made me dumber.

This thing would STILL be a minstrel show regardless of who made it, is kind of my (I thought) explicit point here.

But if a white person of similar infamy made a similarly plotted, similarly brilliant/retarded film, it would be received in precisely the same way. It would reflect white culture instead of black culture of course, but the basic dynamic would be the same. People of all sorts would adore it in a condescendingly ironic fashion.

I mean, what if Scott Stapp DID make something like TITC, and a lot of black people dug it because of the "juxtapositions of white stereotypes with outrageous non-sequiturs"?

So what? Comedy = stereotypes + stereotypes punctured. Big deal. White guilt about what's okay or not okay to laugh at is retarded. Every culture in the world thinks other cultures are funny to the extent they don't think they're evil.

Therefore, thinking other cultures are funny is a GOOD THING. Or at least it can be...

sometimes comedy also equals people falling over or running around to yakety sax

Die.

XOXOXO

I mean, I like people falling on their asses as much as the next guy.

"I'm sure you do, as long as they're eating fried chicken and watermelon."

That's not just beneath you, it's beneath this whole damn board.

just curious then, why is Trapped In The Closet trumpeted for its comic genius and not Soul Plane? I assume you think both are minstrel shows.

Also, shouldn't blame for any irono-condescening white people TITC luv be placed at the feet of the irono-condescending white people, rather than R. Kelly?

I'm not blaming R Kelly and I don't know that Dan neccessarily is either (or at any rate, that Dan is blaming R Kelly MORE than the white people who propagate that shit) but I'm not going to answer for him.

That's it exactly. I hate the way the phrase "minstrel show” is being casually thrown around.

I don't see any intentional mockery of blackness in TITC. It's buffoonish, sure, and people are definitely responding to that. But it's also really fucking bizarre in a way that has nothing to do with race.

Maybe some white people ARE getting crypto-racist laffs out of it. I dunno. But that doesn't make it a damn minstrel show.

It isn't fair to bring that kind of language into it.

I thought that was yr. point above.

Anyway, "minstrel show" really is similar to "Hitler", as Cheesesteak deliciously pointed out above. It's too loaded to be useful in a debate. It distorts and unbalances things.

There's something sticky in here that I can't quite parse (no sarcasm).

Deej, I realize that was a gut reaction on Dan's part, but there's no reason why the convictions behind that impulse shouldn't be explored.

(xpost)

Calling these videos a minstrel show implies that there is something shameful about them....at your own self-revealing risk

As long as we're talking about this, I'm amazed that the Blowfly thread escaped this kind of breakdown. His cachet among white folks seems WAAAAAY more suspicious to me...

This is silly. Everyone gets so defensive when someone mentions that word. Its like, 'must...find...non...racist...footing.' "I'm not a racist, thats whats so insane about this." etc

I don't see why the audience's reaction isn't a legitimate part of a critique of an artist/piece of art. They're not seperate - or rather, they're not seperate when you're talking 'minstrelsy'. I can't really argue Dan's perspective because he didn't elucidate much beyond it but to me its entirely reasonable to be critical of R Kelly or the song because of the way that song is received. And incidently, "minstrel show" is about calling on a certain tradition that is tied in with racism. So its a pretty broad descriptor and people seem to respond to what they ASSUME he's saying. Welcome to america etc

Still, at this pt. TITC is bad and boring.

One of the things said upthread was that people are pointing and laughing, saying Kelly is being 'unintentionally funny', and that this too is patronising. Neither my friends nor I know whether he knows what he's doing, but we debate it, and I really don't think that the people who claim it to be accidental are undermining the man whatsoever (whether he deserves to be undermined personally is a different issue).

Essentially, I may be missing something as a Britisher - some of the arguments seem to have revolved around US issues that I have no conception of - but the point is that this production is just great; the music works, the plot is hilarious and engaging, and I can't see one reason for people to not like it.

Exit, stage left...