ILM's Top 77 Albums of 2014

This conversation seems to have evaporated somehow

gee

hi, matt

Never heard of war on drugs until this poll

If you're starting this conversation by conflating 'competent' and 'functional' (and maybe 'sticks within the borders of its genre') in relation to the War on Drugs or indeed virtually anything then you're starting from a false premise regardless of the correctness of other parts of your argument.

I mean I'm not sure how many bands there are out there who over the years have mixed boomer rock tropes with droney shoegaze, not that many that I can think of, but because these are both separately very well worn tropes within indie rock now, they seem more generic than they might otherwise be considered.

The flipside is that this is exactly the sort of "the points of difference are only really visible close up" scenario that some critics would do well to consider more regularly when reviewing other genres.

That's all good, but I'm not sure how the Boney Joan rule fits in. Kogan's article suggests that we should interrogate the justifications we use to defend our tastes, but also that we should own them. It's perfectly okay to prefer Boney M for the same reasons that one scorns Joan Baez. According to Kogan (and I agree), the real, deep down, ultimate explanation for our tastes will probably never be available to us anyway. By this logic, it's perfectly fine to happily vibe out to The War on Drugs while finding other sorts of vibe-dependent music kind of boring. Or vice-versa.

I think the conversation has been tighter than you suggest. I raised the Boney Joan Rule because "owning" the contradictions in one's tastes necessitates dispensing with the pseudo-ethical justifications for our qualitative distinctions - if we recognise that we like competence in one area and dislike it in another out of pure inconsistency, then we have to concede that this distinction is entirely arbitrary. At that point, intellectual consistency demands acknowledgment that's no reason that it's "right" to be inconsistent in that manner.

My original point was to agree with you that tolerance of pure functionalism or competency in one area of music while complaining about it in another (or using it as a basis to justify disregarding whole swathes of music) is inconsistent, but I would like to see more music crit discourse own up to this inconsistency rather than pretend (whether consciously or just at the level of an unacknowledged starting premise) that in just one area pure functionalism is okay because of some inherent nobility of form.

I agree with you that the basic problem is... not indie-generalism itself, but the circumstances that give rise to it.

Agree with that analysis and it gets some way to identifying what my problem with them is. They're taking these two contrasting but both ultimately very stodgy comfort food ingredients and fusing them together into what basically amounts to the glazed bacon donut of indie rock.

That was a response to mdc btw

Thanks to JF and sean - really enjoyed the rollout, esp. Day 1

I hate Bruce Springsteen. I hate late 80's beer commercial rock. Dire Straits do nothing for me. I don't read Pitchfork. I love the War On Drugs album, and voted it third. My enjoyment of it has nothing to do with its presumed influences. For me, it inhabits its own singular musical space. PS, I am 52.

Guards, take him.

lol

One more casualty of the war on drugs

I also voted for Jack White and Manic Street Preachers. I'll leave my pass at the security desk.

Thanks for a great roll out JF! Enjoyed it and have quite a list of albums still to check out.

OK, I only have one question for each and every one of you.

Why did you not tell me about Mr. Twin Sister?

― The Reverend, Thursday, January 29, 2015 5:27 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Rev I'm pretty sure I played this for you when you were over haha

lol

Think what threw you off was that I mentioned the Sade comparison that gets thrown around and obviously everything that isn't Sade starts sounding a little bland as soon as you mention Sade

Already found some good stuff in the 77 that I missed completely (DJ Q, Winged Victory for the Sullen, Ex Hex). Thanks to the pollrunners!

i feel like every year ilms eoy list becomes more itself

it's craftsmaship when you want to like it and not innovative when you don't

As this applies to words that I said, this is kinda bullshit as I for the most part tend to veer away from touting 'craftsmanship', although since I put words in the mouth of the ppl who were frustrated at TWOD placing, I can't really get mad at you doing the same to me

There's a couple more things which I don't have time to say right now. One is how in the 80s when indie first came out of college rock and hardcore genres is that it stood in opposition for stuff like Building the Perfect Beast and now has come full circle. Say what you will about rap which has existed for abt the same time; it never quite transformed into 'not-rap'

― proggy went a-courtin' (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:37 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

did not intend to put words in your mouth that was just my reaction to the post...

i get what you're saying about indie/college rock being in opposition to building the perfect beast...but in the long perspective of music, it gets more apparent that the differences between, for example, one of the "pro" X major label records and Boys of Summer had a lot more to do w/how the audiences viewed themselves than X really breaking from classic rock forms in any meaningful way...or like I dunno, the difference between REM and Tom Petty, they both are now actually considered classic rock, as is U2, once a "post-punk" band so for a band that comes later like War on Drugs, I don't think it's unnatural to throw in psych/post-punk/kraut/dire straits/FM rock/neil young/whatever into a blender

also i heard an interview with the War on Drugs dude on the local radio station when they came through town and he talked about like driving around listening to Bob Dylan on cassettes in a Volvo station wagon after soccer too, so I'm not sure how "indie" the dude ever was....he might have always just a rock dude

rock and roll genius ride the middle of the road
milk that sound, blow your load
soon it's bigger than you ever said it'd go
four stars in a Rolling Stone

if we recognise that we like competence in one area and dislike it in another out of pure inconsistency, then we have to concede that this distinction is entirely arbitrary

True up to a point -- if all you say is, "Ugh, competent rock/trap/techno/country" or "Yay, competent rock/trap/techno/country." But it's possible and not rhetorically contradictory to find some competence charming or comforting, and some competence stultifying. So it's a matter of clarity and specificity, not being lazy in thinking or writing.

Yeah, I agree that talking about TWOD in terms of "indie" values, for good or ill, is a red herring. The fact that it's placed so high in the ILX poll when records with equivalent RS/Q love (Beck, Sharon Van Etten, Sun Kil Moon, Jack White) proves that it's not representative on indie in 2014. That's why everyone tasked with defining its significance in EOTY write-ups has struggled. There's nothing to sign up to here. It's just an unassuming yet distinctive, very pleasurable (or not) vibe record that's thinkpiece-repellent. It's not just competent though. There are hundreds of merely competent rock records every year that get faint praise and disappear.

Otm

i think ppl should be using 'atmospheric' to describe that war on drugs records. doing a kinda scott seward disoriented grandpa thing here but i dont really have a sense of what ppl are talking about when the say 'indie' rn. i did really like the war on drugs records, listened to it a fair bit but i feel like it kinda falls into that matt p thread about 'inconsquential music' i was reading like its not really situated w/in the current aesthetic or social context for 2014 indie? its just sorta... its own thing but not in a tastemaking way. idk

truth bomb from the tracks poll:

ILM is one of the few remaining safe spaces online where indie rock is rightfully hounded & mocked ceaselessly.

― ||||||||, Friday, January 23, 2015 6:05 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tim explained this to contenderizer but everyone complaining about indie getting mocked for things that rap, country, metal, pop, dance don't is missing the point. they don't start on the same level. you've had half a century and ongoing of rock/indie's values being centred and dominant. pushing back against that is an integral part of this board's dna and you will simply DEAL when people continue that proud history.

its not really situated w/in the current aesthetic or social context for 2014 indie? its just sorta... its own thing but not in a tastemaking way. idk

― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, January 30, 2015 10:53 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

theyll be on the bonaroo/jam circuit w/3 years, ive see it happen before, bet

indiesplaining

lex thats nonsense

its not really situated w/in the current aesthetic or social context for 2014 indie? its just sorta... its own thing but not in a tastemaking way. idk

― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, January 30, 2015 10:53 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

theyll be on the bonaroo/jam circuit w/3 years, ive see it happen before, bet

― lag∞n, Friday, January 30, 2015 9:56 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah any band that comes close enough to that scene generally makes that move eventually and i don't blame them, way more loyal fanbase & big summer circuits to hit

Pretty sure this board used to be a Belle & Sebastian fan forum.

yeah any band that comes close enough to that scene generally makes that move eventually and i don't blame them, way more loyal fanbase & big summer circuits to hit

― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, January 30, 2015 10:58 AM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah its way better, the fans actually love music too

Wonder if PJ Harvey will drop a new LP two weeks before Xmas so we can really test this.

This board started out thinking Loveless and Kid A were the best albums ever iirc

haha even the early board's official indie hate mascot ethan was a belle & sebastian fan

who isnt?

that said a song like 'Seasons' winning the tracks poll would've felt like much more of a break from tradition

I wouldn't equate "rock values" with "indie values" nor say that either set of values has remained consistent over a half-century

i'm american btw

theyll be on the bonaroo/jam circuit w/3 years, ive see it happen before, bet

TWOD is on the Bonnaroo roster for this year. I haven't been too into I've heard by them, but I might check them out there -- hazy guitar jams can be fun.

And yes, it's not hard to imagine them going over well with the My Morning Jacket fanbase, e.g.

xp If ILM's mission is to correct historical rockcrit injustices and oppose Pitchfork and all it stands for, then maybe there should be a sign on the door.

lol @ lex's timsplaining

the discussion at this point has zero to do with whether or not it's okay to mock indie. of course it is, you big dummy. if fgti had come in yesterday with "lol, more landfill indie crap", then i'd have filed the post with strychnine's and quickly moved on. however, the fgti post that triggered all this was a good deal more subtle and interesting than that, so i treated it in kind. mockery is fine for what it is, but when your ability to deal with a genre is wholly defined by childish "my team rulez, your team droolz" bullshit, then you've become irrelevant to more nuanced discussions.

our job is to fight the indiearchy

i do agree that yesterdays rock/today's indie are the voice, in a way, of a dominant culture. that's probably worth discussing, and it's where i'd left things at the end of my last (long) post. i didn't push it any further, cuz this is the point at which fucks cluster.

srsly you do not want to go down that road
way too much time has already been devoted to the war on drugs as it is

the war on drugs will never end tbh

Was secretly hoping that Aphex Twin's placing would cause a reevaluation of his catalog, a process called The War On Drukqs

who isnt?

― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, January 30, 2015 11:04 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

me, lots of people here