Van der Graaf Generator / Peter Hammill S& D, C or D?

:D oh man, that's an awesome performance, at least in the way they attack the song...I was transfixed! Banton's still got it big-time. Hammill too, at least vocally. I'll forgive the odd guitar slip-up (and the fact they slightly duff the "siiiiilence...crash" bit)...that was fucking rock...

That looseness is such a key part of what they do, I've got an unnecessary quantity of 70s bootlegs and they always had it, preferring to vamp and rock out than toddle thru reproductions of the album sound. You get a feeling with all of the albums that they're markers for the live sets.

I was flipping through classic rock radio today and thought for an instant I heard Peter Hammill's voice. I got really excited, then realized it was actually "Under Pressure". Total letdown.

i just got the 2005 remaster of "pawn hearts." my GOD is it an improvement on the late-80s cd. it's audible, for one, and you can hear more than one instrument at a time.

Did they reissue this on vinyl too? My old LP is pretty well played out...

A Place To Survive starts off a bit unpromisingly, then gets more awesome the more it goes on. Am thinking I might rather like World Record.

Masks is pretty great. Meurglys III is interesting. I *really* like the closing reggae jam/guitar solo. The first five minutes are superb! That bit about 3 minutes in needs to go on for wayyyy longer.

Unfortunately, the midsection is basically an attempt to be Pink Floyd followed by an attempt to be Still life, both of which fail (at least until the latter section starts shifting around gratifyingly in the 2 or so minutes before reggaeness).

The guitar changes the band's dynamic quite a bit.

Wondering starts a bit boringly but then becomes :O really lovely! Wow! What's happening?

As for When She Comes, it's ok but the hook seems ripped-off from another VDGG song, maybe Arrow.

I think Quiet Zone/Pleasure Dome is slightly better than this album, but this is by no means ungood.

As for When She Comes, it's ok but the hook seems ripped-off from another VDGG song, maybe Arrow.

Haha wait shit it's basically like a cross between La Rossa and Scorched Earth which are like my two favourite VDGG songs o_O

Present is GREAT!!

My 'favourite bands' roster is taking shape nicely.

Oh shit, get rid of 'In Babelsberg' (or at least cut it down to 2 or 3 minutes) and we're maybe talking one of the top 20 albums of this decade o_O

Like, I'd rank it almost alongside their 70's peaks. And this is on first listen.

Now listening to 'The Least We Can Do...' for the first time...

WHITE HAMMER

awesome album, awesome band. why are they not loved by everyone who claims to be interested in good music?

The end of White Hammer is ridiculously heavy. Love it.

Just listening to Godbluff on repeat now! This band just didn't release bad music. Live BBC version of Masks is tremendous btw

White Hammer is such a lovely song for 6 or 7 minutes, too. Then it becomes the most evil thing ever. Fucking amazing.

(Oh, and I listened to some of Vital and oh shit was it intense...need to give the whole thing a go)

i go on binges with this stuff. nothing by VdGG for a day or two... and then i can't listen to it again for months. shit is intense.

nothing BUT VdGG, i meant to type

am having that sort of day with the song 'the sleepwalkers'...the bit that starts just after the 6 and a half minute mark is like some sort of new high in epic

THE M-M-M-M-MASOCHISTIC M-M-M-MUMBLE OF HIS ACT

btw 'After The Flood' seems to unwittingly chart VDGG's path from dinky and kinda lame acoustic psychedelia into righteous doom-power mayhem better than any rock critic could

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC7EW5X54F4&feature=player_embedded

^^ dope trailer for a dope movie

Awesome Julian Cope review of PH: http://www.headheritage.co.uk/unsung/albumofthemonth/766

― This is the day when fisticuffs happened everywhere (country matters), Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:28 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

From the footnotes to that review:

"... Mark Smith auditioned for Henry Cow"

... uhhhhh, what!??!?!??!

― Free the Northampton 1 (Tom D.), Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:35 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark

even though this seemed like internet rumor mill stuff, I did ask Frith about this last time I saw him after a show at Mills. there was never an audition, though he did remember Smith coming to Cow shows and being sociable. after Dagmar bowed out, they considered Phil Minton before realizing she was irreplaceable.

Just re-listened to Present last night and now my opinion has flip-flopped. The studio album disc is better than the studio "jam" disc.

"The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other" has turned out to be practically as good as the three monoliths. I'd rank it well above H To He. It's phenomenal, beautiful and brilliant. The repeated, quickening breakdown in 'After The Flood' is maybe one of their top 5 moments ever.

There were also suggestions that Smith and Hammill were going to collaborate, in the late '80s I think. Hammill said later that it never came about because he didn't like jam sessions. Although given what you suspect are Smith's working methods, I'd imagine the fear was fairly groundless and that there were other reasons.

Also PH is a bit of a control freak and is very reluctant to collaborate for that reason. probably the same goes for Smith as well.

the thought of more than one of my all-time hallowed musical geniuses in the same room attempting to work on the same project has blown my mind a little; it just wouldn't be possible

i mean if you put hammill, MES, a bedridden tim smith and garm in a room together and told them to come up with something good, it'd be war

I fucking adore this cover

http://www.leyline.com.br/show.jpg

I heard it was taken at Alcatraz.

"Aguarian" on the first LP - CLASSIC!!

'afterwards' is one of my fave vdgg songs, 'octopus' is gr8 too...

THX for reminding me to change my name!

First album is underrated!

Yeah, I like it better than "Least We Could Do"; it's a lot more melodic and goofy than their later material, but I think it holds up well.

I remember the song that got me into VDGG was "House With No Door"; I thought "Killer" was insanely good too, but "House" really make PH seem like a freak. That second (?) chorus - "I don't know you, you say you know me, (in ridiculous falsetto) THAT MAY BE SOOOOOOOO...."; one of my friends and I used to try to imitate that line all the time. I shied away from this stuff because I always saw it as being like a second-rate version of Genesis or Yes or King Crimson...perhaps from reading too many review sites that said "Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" was garbage. I admit the first half of it is slow but when it gets rolling - boner.

I also noticed that the first half of "Sleepwalkers" sounds a lot like a demented game show theme. Really cool.

Oh yeah...new VDGG album out now - "A Grounding in Numbers". Anyone hear it yet?? Early reviews seem to indicate it's good but there's not much out on it yet.

yeah it's good but not great. it's an album of short songs – quite aggressive in places, which is nice. Hammill's guitar is more prominent this time than it was on Trisector. Banton's organ work is miraculous of course but I still miss Jackson sorely.

i just got the 2005 remaster of "pawn hearts." my GOD is it an improvement on the late-80s cd. it's audible, for one, and you can hear more than one instrument at a time.

yeah improvement is immense. Totally changes your idea of what they were about. The earlier cds sound intentionally anti-groove.
You can hear how wrong that was on the mid 00s ones.
You can also hear how big an influence they had on the Italian early 70s scene.

I'm just thinking I need to sort out my hard drives. My V.D.G.G. live sets are all out of reach from my computer cos the drive isn't connected. & it's also got my VU, Thin White rope, Henry Cow and a couple of other bands on.

absolutely. picking these up are really what made me a fan again. some of the bonus tracks are killer too.

it's strange; i'm in kind of an anti-prog phase right now after burning out on Yes and Genesis and especially King Crimson, but VDGG don't really fit into that mould and their discs seem to take on a greater importance. like, good prog was not all about your chops. I've seen VDGG derided quite a bit by prog-lovers as second-rate or mediocre, but they really seem to be something else. they have kind of an ELP quality to them in that they really seem to just go for it, but they know how to create atmosphere and write songs rather than just play fast.

well the thing about VdGG is that they were unlike most other prog groups, including Yes and Genesis but also certainly ELP, in the fact that their gigs contained significant elements of randomness and chaos. not saying they improvised like KC did but there was always this element of danger about them. you never quite knew which way they were going to go, whereas with other prog groups the performance would be the same night after night. other prog groups to which this applies would have been people like KC and Henry Cow.

yeah I'm kind of leaning now towards "none of those guys ever made an album as ridiculous and incredible as Godbluff"

there's not a lot of consensus among VdGG fans as to their best album. yeah Godbluff would certainly be up there but I would go with Still Life myself. others would choose Pawn Hearts

and as I often say on these threads it's not possible to talk about VdGG without talking about Hammill's solo albums as well, three or four of which are right up there with the best VdGG albums

Have you heard any of his stuff post-VdGG breakup? They don't really get talked about much so I don't really know if he went the route of Genesis or hit some sort of artistic decline.

I always thought Pawn Hearts was the consensus favorite, but you really have to be on board with the group to appreciate it. I'm surprised that H to He doesn't get talked about more. To me it is the equivilent of Fragile.

yeah, I'm a completist so I've heard them all

personally I prefer Hammill solo to VdGG, again you'll get different views as to the consensus favourite but the first post-VdGG break-up record he did was Over which is this wrist-slashing post-(romantic) breakup thing and imho is the best thing he or VdGG ever put their name to

in the late '70s/early '80s he went through this excellent new wave/post-punk phase, short songs, tons of energy and glorious riffing

short answer, no Hammill has never been in any sort of artistic decline

i've heard most of his records too but not in ages, my feeling was post -80's they god kind of inconsistent (fireship, the margin, none of the above....I have NO memory of these albums!). But In Camera, Nadir, Ph7, a black box, I like these as much as the VdGG albums.

also i'm not so sure I like the remasters, they are pretty no-noised and weird. the original cds didn't sound good either. I bet the vinyls sound amazing but I'm not in a position invest in those.

the new VDGG album is really good though, btw, better than the last two; not sure it's "stands with pawn hearts/still life/godbluff' the way some reviews have said, but it's certainly worthy.

Just listened to Fool's Mate for the first time...sounded decent but not as good as any of the VdGG stuff I've heard

Kind of funny how people refer to it as his "goofy" album...musically it is not really heavy, but these lyrics are pretty depressing (and self-centered).

"Fool's Mate" is all old songs, he wrote 1967-1969 when he was like 19, 20

Kind of funny how people refer to it as his "goofy" album...musically it is not really heavy, but these lyrics are pretty depressing (and self-centered)

don't think people do really... there is "Sunshine" which is probably the closest he ever got to goofy