R. Kelly - "Trapped In The Closet"

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is r. "in on the joke," as it were? i mean, i know dude is crazy, but there's no way that he's actually totally serious about this, is there?

but even if he was, ive seen/heard too many white frat dudes make fun of this in a v. sketchily racist way to be enthusiastic abt it.

― max (maxreax), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:37 (nineteen years ago)

i almost added to my original post 'except for gleeful ironists like miccio who enjoy idiotic horseshit if its produced by white dudes too' but the criticism still stands, white ppl have a serious problem reading artistic intent into black music and consume it only as something ignorantly & unintentionally bad

― and what (ooo), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:37 (nineteen years ago)

ethan's totally right, 90% of white "fans" of titc that i know would never think that r. is making a comedy; it's always, "look how dumb/crazy this guy is" ("this is what happens when you give black people the ability to make music/movies")

― max (maxreax), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks for making me smile, guys.

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

see above post from ppl who suppose that r 'just learned the meaning of the word cliffhanger' is therefore abusing it like a child would

― and what (ooo), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

Connie Chung's bizarre "lounge act" thing is hilarious because Connie Chung can't sing, not because Connie Chung is Asian.

"Trapped in the Closet" is "hilarious" largely because of the juxtapositions of black stereotypes with outrageous non-sequiturs.

I have not seen or heard "Trapped in the Drive-Thru" but I'm certain that its humor works because Weird Al is a comedian good at writing funny material.

Like I said, don't get mad because you happen to really, really like some bullshit.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:43 (nineteen years ago)

hey, I got no problem with Ethan's "idiotic bullshit/gleeful irony" talk, I just think if everybody on General Hospital started singing I'd laugh at that too.

― da croupier (da croupier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:47 (nineteen years ago)

plus R. Kelly's got a much better (if totally skewed) sense of timing than whoever did Jerry Springer: The Musical.

― da croupier (da croupier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:49 (nineteen years ago)

"...if someone white had produced "Trapped In The Closet", people would be comparing to to "Soul Plane" rather than trumpeting its comedic genius."
- The Android Cat

No way.

R. Kelly isn't just "somebody", and that's critical. Even without TITC, Kelly is, ummm ... complicated. He's brilliant and awful and creepy and hilarious all mashed together.

There isn't a comparable white entertainment figure that we could map this scenario onto, simply 'cuz R. Kelly is unique. But if a kinda-half-similarly bizzare and wonderful/awful white guy made this exact same film, starring himself, I think it'd receive exactly the same response.

I mean, what if Scott Stapp made TITC? The world would shit itself! The world would do exactly what it did in Kelly's case. You'd have a million condescending blog entries about the "genius" and people rolling in the aisles.

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:50 (nineteen years ago)

i think g n'r's don't cry, november rain, and estranged videos might figure into this debate...somehow.

― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:51 (nineteen years ago)

FFS, why did I even come back onto this thread.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

haha got me

― cheesesteak and shake (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

i was going to jump in until i realized we're wobbling precariously close to the great whisper song debate of '05 here

― cheesesteak and shake (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:54 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, what if Scott Stapp made TITC?

I think reading this made me dumber.

This thing would STILL be a minstrel show regardless of who made it, is kind of my (I thought) explicit point here.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:59 (nineteen years ago)

Sure, if a white guy made TITC shot for shot, line for line, it'd be racist. Blackface. Appalling. I didn't think you were suggesting anything so obvious.

But if a white person of similar infamy made a similarly plotted, similarly brilliant/retarded film, it would be received in precisely the same way. It would reflect white culture instead of black culture of course, but the basic dynamic would be the same. People of all sorts would adore it in a condescendingly ironic fashion.

I mean, what if Scott Stapp DID make something like TITC, and a lot of black people dug it because of the "juxtapositions of white stereotypes with outrageous non-sequiturs"?

So what? Comedy = stereotypes + stereotypes punctured. Big deal. White guilt about what's okay or not okay to laugh at is retarded. Every culture in the world thinks other cultures are funny to the extent they don't think they're evil.

Therefore, thinking other cultures are funny is a GOOD THING. Or at least it can be...

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:03 (nineteen years ago)

Comedy = stereotypes

sometimes comedy also equals people falling over or running around to yakety sax

― cheesesteak and shake (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

I think I'll let Mr. Beales take it from here...

― da croupier (da croupier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

Dear Adam Beales:

Die.

XOXOXO

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

nah comedy = bad things happening to other people (non sequiturs optional)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:07 (nineteen years ago)

to yakety sax

― cheesesteak and shake (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:08 (nineteen years ago)

(I hope that's an xpost!)

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:08 (nineteen years ago)

i'm actually hearing this whole thread to the tune of yakety sax. dan, you are benny hill. adam beales and miccio are bikini girls.

― cheesesteak and shake (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:09 (nineteen years ago)

Riley: If you're good, maybe Santa will give you a golden shower for Christmas!
Grandad: Christmas? My man Santa.

― baron kickass von awesomehausen (nickalicious), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:09 (nineteen years ago)

Riley: Grandad, can you take us into the city tomorrow to watch the R. Kelly trial?
Grandad: Hell no, but you can walk.
Riley: It's 40 miles!
Grandad: All the money I spent on them damn Nikes, you better just do it.

― baron kickass von awesomehausen (nickalicious), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:10 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, fine, I'll fix it. SOME comedy = stereotypes + stereotypes punctured. Hope that helps.

I mean, I like people falling on their asses as much as the next guy.

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sure you do, as long as they're eating fried chicken and watermelon.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:13 (nineteen years ago)

― baron kickass von awesomehausen (nickalicious), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:14 (nineteen years ago)

i think "minstrel show" is the new "hitler"

― cheesesteak and shake (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:15 (nineteen years ago)

Some part of me wants to say, "Fuck you, Android," but for the life of me, I can't imagine why people bother.

"I'm sure you do, as long as they're eating fried chicken and watermelon."

That's not just beneath you, it's beneath this whole damn board.

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:15 (nineteen years ago)

(I hope that's an xpost!)

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:15 (nineteen years ago)

i've never tried to eat watermelon and walk at the same time, sounds dangerous.

― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:16 (nineteen years ago)

Sure it's dangerous, but you should see the children laugh!

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:17 (nineteen years ago)

I am not at all about "Flavor of Love", either, but I don't think you can blithely seperate the work produced from the people producing it; if someone white had produced "Trapped In The Closet", people would be comparing to to "Soul Plane" rather than trumpeting its comedic genius.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

Android OTM.

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:19 (nineteen years ago)

maybe we can all just settle our differences over a nice communal viewing of the Oscar-winning film "Crash".

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:22 (nineteen years ago)

also I am eagerly awaiting Scott Stapp's 12-part musical "Trapped on the Cross"

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:23 (nineteen years ago)

if someone white had produced "Trapped In The Closet", people would be comparing to to "Soul Plane" rather than trumpeting its comedic genius.

just curious then, why is Trapped In The Closet trumpeted for its comic genius and not Soul Plane? I assume you think both are minstrel shows.

― da croupier (da croupier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:33 (nineteen years ago)

did anybody even see Soul Plane?

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

I think Matt Cibula loved it. Somebody somewhere described John Witherspoon as a blind man fingering a mashed potato (believing it to be pussy) and it's the only reason I want to see it at all).

― da croupier (da croupier), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:37 (nineteen years ago)

Dan, what black stereotypes are TITC trading in on? And how are these stereotypes anywhere near as egregious as those in Soul Plane? You lost me here.

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene (R. J. Greene), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:45 (nineteen years ago)

I think anyone who thinks the popularity of this among white people is not in some way based upon R Kelly's race & the history of race in this country is fooling themselves. I think its debateable the degree to which this is true, here on ILM and in the world at large, but in my anecdotal experience the 'degree to which this is true' could justify someone calling it a 'minstrel show.' I think its a mistake though to read calling it a 'minstrel show' as some sort of nuanced scholarly deconstruction of THE PHENOMENA OF R KELLY'S CLOSET or something.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

jesus christ dan, put down the internet and walk away for a while. even when you're right you can be really hard to agree with.

― m@p (plosive), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 23:11 (nineteen years ago)

Deej, I asked that because Dan's previous posts seemed to indicate that TITC is minstrelsy because of the content, regardless of whether R. Kelly (or even any black person) is involved or not. I'm merely interested in what causes him to think this. And Dan is smarter than your last sentence gives him credit for.

Also, shouldn't blame for any irono-condescening white people TITC luv be placed at the feet of the irono-condescending white people, rather than R. Kelly?

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene (R. J. Greene), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 23:48 (nineteen years ago)

My statement wasn't made directly in response to yr post - just sort of trying to get a hold on the way I see people arguing. My last sentence wasn't an attack on dan but a defense of him - the mistake is on the part of people treating dan's statement as anything more than a gut reaction to a pop culture phenomenon that seems to have some offensive aspects (primarily in how its received) (the only thing offensive to me about Kells performance in itself is that its boring)

I'm not blaming R Kelly and I don't know that Dan neccessarily is either (or at any rate, that Dan is blaming R Kelly MORE than the white people who propagate that shit) but I'm not going to answer for him.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 23:53 (nineteen years ago)

Deej:

That's it exactly. I hate the way the phrase "minstrel show” is being casually thrown around.

I don't see any intentional mockery of blackness in TITC. It's buffoonish, sure, and people are definitely responding to that. But it's also really fucking bizarre in a way that has nothing to do with race.

Maybe some white people ARE getting crypto-racist laffs out of it. I dunno. But that doesn't make it a damn minstrel show.

It isn't fair to bring that kind of language into it.

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 00:04 (nineteen years ago)

i donno i see what he's getting at

― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 11 January 2007 00:07 (nineteen years ago)

Who is it not fair to?

― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 11 January 2007 00:08 (nineteen years ago)

It isn't fair to TITC or to R. Kelly. Calling these videos a minstrel show implies that there is something shameful about them. That phrase simply damns the whole project, when the only real objection here seems to be that white people may be laughing for the wrong reasons (darn them).

I thought that was yr. point above.

Anyway, "minstrel show" really is similar to "Hitler", as Cheesesteak deliciously pointed out above. It's too loaded to be useful in a debate. It distorts and unbalances things.

― Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 11 January 2007 00:39 (nineteen years ago)

Calling these videos a minstrel show implies that there is something shameful about them.

There's something sticky in here that I can't quite parse (no sarcasm).

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Thursday, 11 January 2007 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

Beales on the dinero. (Although I, not to be all high/mighty, am completely guilty of calling things minstrelsy.)

Deej, I realize that was a gut reaction on Dan's part, but there's no reason why the convictions behind that impulse shouldn't be explored.

(xpost)

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene (R. J. Greene), Thursday, 11 January 2007 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

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