but the trouble with knowing someone is a kind of a jerk is that then, once you know that, when you listen to their music you start to imagine their self-understanding as they listen to themselves and it gets gross, like breathing inside a rubber halloween mask- there's no more space because "the person" and "the art" got suffocatingly proximate.
This is so goddamn well put.
― a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 17:16 (nine years ago) link
I'm beginning to think that Ariel Pink is intentionally generating these blog-magnet misogynistic quotes just so people stop assuming that he's a woman
― voodoo chili, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:06 (nine years ago) link
What's mysogynistic about not liking Madonna?
― calstars, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:09 (nine years ago) link
It wouldn't necessarily be if this were the first example of stupid shit that he said
― voodoo chili, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:10 (nine years ago) link
Pretty sure most people just assumed he was a pile of shit xp
― fgti, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:10 (nine years ago) link
booming post the tune is space
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:15 (nine years ago) link
I dunno I have had absolutely no problem with deleting/selling/ignoring the music of Ariel Pink 50 Cent Chuck D R Kelly Stephin Merritt at the very moment they reveal themselves as terrible assholes / harass a friend / hit a teacher / etc. etc. etc. I never got the "love the art / hate the artist" argument, I just say "gbyeeeeee" and that's the end of it
― fgti, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:32 (nine years ago) link
godspeed black you emperor emperor emperor emperor emperor emperor
― astuteness isn't everything (wins), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:38 (nine years ago) link
I wish they'd change their name to G'BYE!
― fgti, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:04 (nine years ago) link
http://cdn.thats-normal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Bonnie-and-Caroline-clink-glasses.gif
― astuteness isn't everything (wins), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:08 (nine years ago) link
fgti I felt the post was booming even though I generally align fretful good i.e. I'm with you, I don't listen to Burzum or Wagner, "there's plenty of great music by people who aren't pieces of shit" is my well-worn motto
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:13 (nine years ago) link
Imma let you finish fgti ;)
I see two constants in Ariel Pink's career: 1) He makes fantastic, unique music (even though I do prefer the early records), 2) Ever since he shot to fame he's been an asshole in nearly every interview he's done, plus shenanigans. He seems lost in his fame, and there's no excuse for assholeism. But it doesn't make me want to throw away his music, which is great.
― definite classic, predicting a solid 8/10 from the p-fork boys (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:14 (nine years ago) link
Ariel Pink is not famous.
― everything, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:17 (nine years ago) link
i feel like this dichotomy is always bizarrely stated on ilx, maybe bc that's how the puritans understand it. but it's not "the music is too good to ignore bc the person is bad" v. "the person is bad it's wrong to listen to the music (and besides there's other good music)." i don't feel any kind of moral involvement in the music i listen to (or movies i watch, games i play, etc). if the person is bad that can be an important part of the art - you don't need to separate them out - and it can even enrich your understanding of the artifact. there's no obligation to shield your eyes from the acts of evil men. just don't be a bad person yourself.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:18 (nine years ago) link
yeah, most 18th century authors were probably anti semites and couldn't care less about women suffrage.
Both Ariel Pink and Grimes are petty jerks nonetheless.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:21 (nine years ago) link
grimes is not a petty jerk
― Treeship, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:22 (nine years ago) link
wait why is Grimes a petty jerk?
― GhostTunes on my Pono (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:22 (nine years ago) link
Her break up with Arbutus was idiotic, selfish and petty.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:23 (nine years ago) link
Mordy otm
― definite classic, predicting a solid 8/10 from the p-fork boys (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:24 (nine years ago) link
if you genuinely read the accusations against the-dream and deleted all your files of the-dream, or belatedly heard what lindsey buckingham's ex said about him in her memoir and tossed your copy of rumours, etc etc, than...that's cool! you should be proud of yourself. personally, i feel like telling myself "i don't supporting the creative efforts of bad people" would lead to me rationalizing things away to maintain that pious state (if no r kelly, no aerosmith? no chris brown, no james brown? michael jackson?). so instead i just try to not to assume valor on the part of artists just because of their work/pr, and if i do or do not want to listen to an album because i've heard something awful about them, so be it. there certainly have been artists whose charges against them were so noxious i didn't want to engage with their work, but stepping from that to "i don't support bad people" is just a degree of self-flattery i can't take. instead i have to settle for "don't assume people who've made creative works you enjoy are good people, and try to be respectful of possible victims in how you speak about their alleged abusers."
― da croupier, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:29 (nine years ago) link
Please expand, because this is the first I've ever heard of her move away from that label being anything other than just a thing that happened.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:34 (nine years ago) link
― Mordy, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 3:18 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yea otm^^^. i mean i think for me personally there is definitely a limit on this, and to a point it interferes with my enjoyment of the work, but fucking seriously how sure and confident are you that every author you read, every movie you watch, every artist you enjoy, every musician you like, is an ethical person with acceptable views on all matters of importance to you? what is your filtering process? how do you make sure? do you give an artist the benefit of the doubt until some news story comes out that makes them sound like an asshole?
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:39 (nine years ago) link
da croupier also otm xxp
― marcos, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:40 (nine years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 3:34 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
https://twitter.com/elite_gz/status/411678740909809664
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:43 (nine years ago) link
Oh, okay. Seems like she was owed $$$ and wasn't getting it, so I don't see why she's not within her rights to shit talk them on twitter about it.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 19:46 (nine years ago) link
It's more complicated than that and from what I gather they did everything in their capacity to pay her in time and successfully so.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:00 (nine years ago) link
that's really the wrong thread to be discussing this.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:02 (nine years ago) link
james brooks =/= grimes last I checked. And maybe james brooks could weigh in a little better but my impression was that it was water-under-bridges?
The repeated refrain is that "all artists are assholes" or "50% of artists are assholes" but irl actually very very few artists are assholes, very fucking few people, and I talk shit about next-to-nobody
Loving that the Ariel Pink thread is about Grimes and the Grimes thread is about Madonna rn
― fgti, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:03 (nine years ago) link
She goes on and on about Arbutus in that twitter thread, its not just Brooks.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:04 (nine years ago) link
do you work for Arbutus? it seems a weird thing for a private citizen to become upset over
― Treeship, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:05 (nine years ago) link
wait, Arbutus won't hire private citizens?
― GhostTunes on my Pono (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:07 (nine years ago) link
i'm not upset about what happened really, just that her attitude wrt arbutus was despicable and that she is not the saint some people make her out to be. not the first time i accused her of that here.
i do agree with her when it comes to calling out ariel pink, to be fair.
also, what? private citizen?
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:10 (nine years ago) link
if Rob Ford were upset, T'ship could understand
― GhostTunes on my Pono (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:11 (nine years ago) link
(but I still get what T'ship meant and agree with it)
― GhostTunes on my Pono (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:13 (nine years ago) link
Was thinking private citizen vs public avenger
― Treeship, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:13 (nine years ago) link
his albums are boring and his mouth is more boring, who cares.
― akm, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:14 (nine years ago) link
just that her attitude wrt arbutus was despicable
I don't know any of the people who started/run Arbutus, but the common misconception that everyone who runs a diy/indie label with cool musicians is a decent person. Sooooo not the case sometimes.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:15 (nine years ago) link
lmaooo forever at EG / DG being called boring in the context of a thread about Ariel fucking Pink
― fgti, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:17 (nine years ago) link
it's true though!
― example (crüt), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:24 (nine years ago) link
I am not a huge Ariel Pink fan by any means but ... the thread that was just above this one in SNA is "top ten things winona ryder has done in life" -- there are multiple power dynamics at play -- yes, one is a man criticizing a woman, but the woman has way more power: fame, capital, fans -- than the man criticizing her. Can we not criticize celebrities whose ethnic/gender/racial identities are more historically marginalized than ours?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:25 (nine years ago) link
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:15 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I know people who are very close to the label, they have their fault sure but what Grimes did was hideous. Whatever.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:27 (nine years ago) link
Can we not criticize celebrities whose ethnic/gender/racial identities are more historically marginalized than ours?
you can, i just recommend putting more thought into it than ariel pink does
― da croupier, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:28 (nine years ago) link
His comments re: Madonna aren't any more misogynistic than some of the posts in that winona ryder thread is all I'm saying
― sarahell, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:32 (nine years ago) link
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:27 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
scroll down in that twitter thread and you can find other arbutus artists defending them btw
― socki (s1ocki), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 20:38 (nine years ago) link
who is james brooks?
― akm, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 21:28 (nine years ago) link
the guy who co-developed the simpsons and wrote/directed broadcast news, terms of endearment and other fine films?
― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 21:30 (nine years ago) link
That's James L. Brooks.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 21:32 (nine years ago) link
James Brooks is the guy that taught Pitchfork all about Kpop.
― MarkoP, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 21:37 (nine years ago) link
*headdesks* i had no clue who the frontperson or whatever of elite gymnastics was thanks
― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 21:44 (nine years ago) link
"who is james brooks" is usually the most appropriate response to mentions of james brooks imo
― james brooks, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 21:58 (nine years ago) link