FKA twigs

Grimes comparison is consistently the most baffling thing in this thread.

Pendulum was co-produced by Twigs and Paul Epworth and the whole album was engineered by David Wrench, who also did the last three Caribou albums and is on a hell of a roll this year.

I get the Grimes comparison, but still, stop.

not really baffling though is it when she has a very similar voice over electronic production and dances around in the same way? You just sound like you don't like the comparison.

You sound like you're paying a fuck of a lot more attention to the "dancing around" (bcz that's what gurls do, amirite?) than to the music, the production, or even their voices.

I mean, christ, this thread is just an idiot attractor, isn't it?

"electronic production" is not really a similarity, is it

they definitely don't have similar voices

just realised i've never seen a video by either! had no idea about the dancing, not that it's relevant

good career move depressing as that is, money, exposure etc

― Raccoon Tanuki, Monday, September 22, 2014 5:52 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yr first reaction to her new boyfriend is that she's doing it for her career??? really?

You sound like you're paying a fuck of a lot more attention to the "dancing around" (bcz that's what gurls do, amirite?) than to the music, the production, or even their voices.

― Aphex T (wins) (Branwell with an N), Monday, September 22, 2014 9:12 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

HA, yeah because her dance isn't like a key part of everything she is and does at all is it? And her image shes carefully created again means nothing does it? You've managed to be condescending to dance while trying to be condescending to someone mentioning it

You're the guy who acts like her dates are career moves, and you're calling me condescending?

This is a boring new troll, and I'm not engaging it further.

they definitely don't have similar voices

just realised i've never seen a video by either! had no idea about the dancing, not that it's relevant

― lex pretend, Monday, September 22, 2014 9:17 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Riiiight, yeah their voices aren't ssimilar at all, I mean i doubt one of them is even human and has human like vocal chords

I've been a fan of her music before I even knew who made it.

Would you have a problem with someone saying Jay and Beyonce, Chris Brown Rihanna, Ye/Kim and every other celeb couple are in it for careers too? Or is that too sensitive topic?

You are boring.

Oh, it's one of those guys who says absurd things and then acts all YOU TOO ~SENSITIVE TO HANDLE MY TRUUUUUUUUUUUTH dudes. Because ILX really needed one of them.

"every celebrity couple is faking their relationship for the sake of their career" is an interesting one. #illuminati territory?

Oh, it's one of those guys who says absurd things and then acts all YOU TOO ~SENSITIVE TO HANDLE MY TRUUUUUUUUUUUTH dudes. Because ILX really needed one of them.

― Aphex T (wins) (Branwell with an N), Monday, September 22, 2014 9:29 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

youre describing yourself? You started this jumping out of nowhere in outrage when someone mentioned the fact she danced

ungh *drool* *snort*

Man, this is a 3.7 kinda troll. Try harder. Seriously.

"ppl reaching for the grimes comparisons really have a small frame of reference even within the always-compare-women-to-women trope " - Lex Pretend

Most ilxor post ever made i think

I was in here talking about her music before you got offended I mentioned the fact she danced, i haven;t got off my log since

You sound like you're paying a fuck of a lot more attention to the "dancing around" (bcz that's what gurls do, amirite?) than to the music, the production, or even their voices.

― Aphex T (wins) (Branwell with an N), Monday, September 22, 2014 9:12 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I love the quick revert to IGNORE HIM HES A TROLL tactic after this hilarious post that he refuses to back up

Hoh shit

emotions running high

fp's running high

obvious ref is the martina topley bird tracks on maxinquaye

dnftt

sorry typi I meant rbftt

I can hear the Martina thing but the crucial difference for me is that when Martina (or Cooly G) sing it's all...unaffected, half speaking, regipnal accents, some girl you'd overhear on the bus, anygirl in the best way. Whereas Twigs is more deliberate and conscious detachment, lofty unaccented pure "playing a role in art school" voices

this sounds absolutely nothing like martina. or grimes. (it would be a lot more interesting if it sounded like martina)

as for the "dates as career moves" thing, the obvious elephant in the room is rpattz and kristen stewart during twilight

i think the detached/lofty/art school voices i'd compare her to are, like, holly herndon and julia holter

Shh, use your art school voice.

holly herndon i almost said for vocally, but as an act the image and sound seem v tricky throwback. this is a compliment.

why is a comparison so u&k?

Pendulum was co-produced by Twigs and Paul Epworth and the whole album was engineered by David Wrench, who also did the last three Caribou albums and is on a hell of a roll this year.

Wrench is amazing, just amazing. Want to scream him name to the high heavens but I'm worried he'll be put on a big shot's retainer and/or priced out of the range of featherweights

R&She, "contemporary sportswear", cheap ketamine, nasir mazhar x opening ceremony, this mix i found on soundcloud of classic triphop, septum piercings

she has a privately educated south western English voice, which funnily enough is also what Martina TB has.

lex's Julia Holter comparison seems right to me, both in the unusual arrangements and in the way her voice floats in the mix

this album makes me feel music-dyslexic. I've listened to it a dozen times and still don't have a handle on it

Dancing is a key part of their image for both Grimes and Twigs, but they're really not similar at all in that department either. Twigs' classical dance training shows even when she's improvising, Grimes did ballet but her dancing is way more "I'm a fairy queen!" anarchy (though she does it quite well).

They're "women who make electronic music and dance" but other than that are really quite different in terms of what they're doing, how they're doing it and what they're trying to achieve so yes, no more comparisons to Grimes pls. or anyone else, even... I dunno, maybe I'm just being sensitive, but Twigs feels pretty singular to me right now.

we can definitively compare how both are being seen by mainstream media.

"They're "women who make electronic music and dance" but other than that are really quite different in terms of what they're doing, how they're doing it and what they're trying to achieve "

Are they really though? Even Twigs interviews come off sounding like Grimes. They've also both had very reminiscent career paths, a few faceless releases under radar building up to mainstream acclaim culminating around the narrative of her weirdness and mystery "where did she come from who is she". They both sing in a whispy high falsetto, Grimes more so, and both dance with classical training. No one is saying they are the same human being, but they're both products of this moment.

No one is saying that they are the same human being, but we have been saying, repeatedly, on this thread, and others, that if you are only able to compare female artists to other female artists, instead of looking around to see what other (male) artists in the same movements that they might be comparable to, *that* is an attitude that is deeply informed by sexism.

Isn't it funny how two women both have high-pitched, feminine voices! That makes them so exactly the same! No one would say the same thing about two men that sang in deep voices? The "girl on the bus" versus "art school" (what I called "ethereal") is interesting in that it's partly complicated by class (singing in a more natural accent versus a "posh" or affected accent) but is also about training and artifice - going for those kinds of conservatoire singing tones because they sustain better.

It's interesting how Roz made a post comparing and contrasting Grimes' ballet instruction with Twigs' more classically trained dance background in a way that both illuminated its effect on them as artists, and managed not to insult dance as a medium without sounding sexist and dismissive like "dances around in the same way?" did. (It's really telling that you picked up on the dismissiveness of that phrase when I repeated it, but not when you originally stated it.)

"Compare the way that two female musicians are seen by the mainstream media" is shooting fish in a fucking barrel. I'd really hope that after years of these kinds of discussions, ILM would have moved past that. The ways that the media talk about female musicians are gross. We really don't have to duplicate that here.

You really seem pissed at that phrasing "dance around" don't you? All this condescending inferring b/c I said dance around? Would you have preferred rhythmical maneuvers? creative body shifts? elegant motions?

I would prefer if *you* stopped projecting motives and emotions such as "pissed off" and "condescending" into my actions and words. That'd be a start, thanks.

You're acting as though she's being compared to Rihanna, Iggy, Janelle, Lordes, MIA or w/e female artist with no real resemblance. Your accusations of sexism might hold weight in that case.

So looking past -

ethereal falsetto vocals
similar career paths
same ages
similar genre
same balletic inspired dance
more than a passing resemblance in appearance
similar discussions in their interviews about roles of sexism in industry
writes own lyrics & self produces
same ethereal, celestial dainty music videos
both seen sans eyebrows

lets not speak of this again.

I'll end with this. Enjoy your day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R00Vu7Ag7s

At least half the things you list have to do with either their gender, or their appearance! And the few that aren't ("writes own lyrics and self produces", FFS? How broad is that?) You are not making a good case, either for your argument, or for the idea that your argument isn't deeply imbued with sexism.

Lots of people on this thread have been able to compare and contrast the work of Twigs and Grimes without lapsing into this dumb bullshit. You aren't one of them. Please go away and change your diaper because your shit is seriously starting to stink.

You won't quit will you. Well you ignored every other point in all my posts about the pretty obvious similarities between them but

"writes own lyrics and self produces", FFS? How broad is that

Um, in todays industry, not that broad at all really.

"At least half the things you list have to do with either their gender, or their appearance!"

Nope, actually only one was. But go ahead.

Would you have sexism issues with people comparing 2Pac and Big, Dylan and Guthrie, Cash and Haggard?

Earlier in the thread you said

But guys. C'mon. R&B? This is straight-up 4AD!

And then you shit on someone comparing her to Bjork

Bjork? What, coz she wears *princess leia braids*? You guys are just grabbing at straws with the ~ladyproducers~ here.

Loosen up with the sexist accusations to people you have absolutely no idea about, based on straw men.

There's probably a Master thesis here: "Towards a typology of coprological metaphors on ILX and the epistemological origins of shitting up/shit-flinging/change your nappy zings in thread discourses with particular reference to FKA Twigs and PJ Harvey"

They've also both had very reminiscent career paths, a few faceless releases under radar building up to mainstream acclaim culminating around the narrative of her weirdness and mystery "where did she come from who is she"

lol this is a very well-worn PR strategy for countless "credible" acts who gain a semi-mainstream profile, whether they're bands or producers or female solo artists, indeed so well-worn that it's p much a cliché now

ethering your points would be like taking from a candy from a baby tbh and i can't be bothered

The "girl on the bus" versus "art school" (what I called "ethereal") is interesting in that it's partly complicated by class (singing in a more natural accent versus a "posh" or affected accent) but is also about training and artifice - going for those kinds of conservatoire singing tones because they sustain better.

this is more interesting - with both holter and herndon it sort of bothered me because i felt it ended up sounding a bit blank and emotionless, as if there wasn't much at stake for them. (herndon's new single is really guilty of this.) even when i loved the music, the songwriting, the production, the ideas, it made is resistant to really hitting me emotionally. twigs isn't as extreme as them but that was certainly a barrier for me at first. k8 - what's your take on how the convey emotion via this deliberate stylistic (and stylised?) choice? compared to singing styles that might be more "obviously" emotional...

"Pretty obvious similarities"

ethereal falsetto vocals - gendered
similar career paths - meaning what?
same ages - appearance
similar genre - what genre is that?
same balletic inspired dance - appearance
more than a passing resemblance in appearance - appearance
similar discussions in their interviews about roles of sexism in industry - gendered
writes own lyrics & self produces - so broad as to be meaningless
same ethereal, celestial dainty music videos - appearance
both seen sans eyebrows - appearance

I'm having trouble seeing how your argument rises above "skinny girls with high voices."

Self producing lyric writers could be anyone from Kate Bush to Paul Banks. Oh, wait, you mean *girls* who self-produce. That's not a gendered observation at all, now is it?

No, it would not be sexist to compare Dylan to Guthrie, but if you only ever compared Dylan to Guthrie and never ever mentioned e.g. Dylan as compared to Joni Mitchell - or, more saliently, only ever compared Joni Mitchell to Joan Baez, rather than Joni to Dylan.

If you want to prove "but I'm not a sexist!" you could try by just, I dunno, not saying dumb sexist things. Try harder.